Fixing bad funerals: 11-13-09
Let us spray, said the gardner: 11-16-09

Patel's interfaith visions: 11-14/15-09

After the visit to Kansas City on Tuesday of Eboo Patel, founder and executive director of the Interfaith Youth Core, I am more convinced than ever that one of the great tasks of Americans in this century is to be models for interfaith cooperation and understanding.


The United States is the most religiously diverse nation in world history, Patel noted. We thus have the chance to show the rest of the world that sectarian violence is unnecessary. We can -- and we must -- live in harmony. But that will not happen without strong and educated leadership.

The good news is that in Kansas City young people have begun to catch Patel's vision and are becoming engaged through the Interfaith Youth Alliance, which is working in partnership with the Greater Kansas City Interfaith Council.

The top picture here today shows Patel speaking to a gymnasium full of students at Notre Dame de Sion High School, with several of the leaders of the Interfaith Youth Alliance on the stage with him. By the way, the girls seated there are, from left to right, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Presbyterian and Hindu.

(The other photo here shows Patel with some guy he got stuck eating dinner with Tuesday night at Beth Shalom, where he spoke and where I moderated the Q&A after that. That's shown in the bottom photo.)

To hear Patel's half-hour talk to the Sion students, click on this link (the recording begins a few seconds into his talk when he's speaking about Martin Luther King Jr. and Mahatma Gandhi):

Download Patel-1

In the next audio clip, Patel takes about two minutes to describe his hopes for what happens in Kansas City to further interfaith understanding and cooperation. He spoke at a luncheon at the home of Gayle and Bruce Krigel:

Download Patel-2

Finally, I want to share with you an audio clip from Patel's Festival of Faiths keynote address. It runs about 48 minutes (and begins a few seconds into his description of a violent incident a few years ago in Jersey City, N.J.:

Download Patel-3

Let me summarize a few of Patel's main points from his three appearances:

* Everyone, especially young people, should be able to cite the sacred writings and the human heroes who inspire you to become engaged in services to others and to interfaith cooperation.

* "The most important ethic of the 21st Century is the ethic of pluralism, the ethic of cooperation." Don't categorize radicals by their alleged religious identity. Rather, decide whether people are in favor of pluralism or extremism, regardless of the religion they claim.

* Every religion makes exclusive claims. That's not the problem. Neither is the problem seeking to convert others. The problem is when that's the only conversation people want to have.

* "The extremists of all traditions belong to one tradition, the tradition of extremism."

* Helpful interfaith leaders know their own tradition and they know the religion of others well enough to talk intelligently about it.

* "Deep in our history, our Founding Fathers had a sense of religious diversity and understood the power of interfaith cooperation."

I hope you'll listen to at least some of what I've given you today of Patel. More, I hope you'll engage in interfaith work yourself, whether you're a person of faith or a nobeliever. It almost certainly will deepen your commitment to your own tradition.

And for other still-to-come events in this year's KC Festival of Faiths, click here.

* * *

ABIQUIU, N.M. -- When I taught a class here at Ghost Ranch last summer in which I tried to introduce people of faith to social networking tools, I should have had with me the French bishop quoted in this story. He is telling the Vatican to get out of its cloister and start communicating more in cyberspace. Exactly.

* * *

P.S.: Until Monday, my Internet access may be unreliable. Thanks for your patience in getting your comments published. In fact, any comments left here on Saturday night or Sunday won't get posted until Monday. Bill.

* * *

ANOTHER P.S.: Follow me on Twitter at


Will Graham

Very informative article, Bill. It certainly eliminates the claims made here that young people aren't interested in religion.


Bill, you've got me so excited about the Interfaith Youth Alliance that I just went to their site and emailed Sheila Sonnenschein about my 9-year-old, to see if she thinks I should wait until she's-high-school aged to get involved, or possibly get involved now ...

I'm not sure if it's all just focused on teens or if there are some gatherings and projects for younger children too. We'll see, and of course it will also depend on my daughter's interest-level.

It sounds like Patel's point about the ethic of cooperation/pluralism echoes the person you quoted the other day about NOT identifying terrorists as part of any religious group ... or as you summarize Patel saying, "The extremists of all traditions belong to one tradition, the tradition of extremism."

I also love that he brought in our founding fathers with their "sense of religious diversity" and their understanding of "the power of interfaith cooperation." As Barak Obama wrote in "Audacity of Hope" about our democracy: there is a conversation to be had -- and actually I believe there are many conversations to be had.

Diverse men came together and listened and brainstormed -- and now we have our Constitution and our wonderfully diverse democracy, and our continued evolution into an increasingly-freer and more caring society. We now have greater ease of communication, and more rapid and far-reaching interchange of ideas than was ever before possible. (Continued)


(Continued) Before I forget, I thought it was fitting to again share the above link to the site that tells about Mark D. Siljander's book, "A Deadly Misunderstanding: A Congressman's Quest To Bridge the Muslim-Christian Divide." I'll confess I haven't read it yet -- I've just been so inspired by hearing his story summarized by someone who HAS read it.

Here is a quote from the above site -- "Mr. Siljander builds a compelling case that any faithful reading of religion and its teachings should serve to unite, not divide." Apparently, from what my friend has shared, he started out with the mindset that his purpose was to convert Muslims to Christianity. But God showed him this was a deadly misunderstanding.

It sounds like the interfaith conversation is "being had" in all kinds of arenas all over the country and all over the world ... and all over the internet. Just as I believe our founding fathers sensed that they were onto something totally world-changing, so we need to NOT underestimate the power of getting together with wildly-diverse people, and listening and sharing of ourselves, and eating and working toghether to better the world ...

Talk is never really just talk.


"The moon is alive"!!!! Water has been discovered in a crater, which means it may be possible for astronauts to be able to sustain life there. Apparently you can use H20 to get the oxygen you need to breathe. You can also fuel rockets. So the moon may end up working as a "low-gravity launch pad" for astronauts and their families to explore more distant places.

The interdisciplinary-dialog between diverse scientists, is much like the conversation had by our nation's founding fathers: both conversations have resulted in living proof that listening to other points of view, and working together, is the way to learn, and to solve problems and get things done.

I am developing more respect than ever, for those people (like you, Bill) who've striven throughout their lives to keep conversations going ... to help people avoid the pitfalls of getting gravely-offended and buried under (or behind) irreconcilable differences that keep them apart, and keep them from engaging in more than surface communication.

Thank you, Bill, for your willingness to keep plugging away and pouring your heart into this blog. There are many great conversations to be had here. Thank you for continuing to open this forum to us, and I pray that we'll use the space you offer to us wisely.


P.S. My husband and our oldest are looking forward to Saturday's (tonight's) movie night at 7PM at Black Dog -- "The BBC Presents: The Planets, Vol. 2: Giants and Moon Giants ..."

Discussion should be especially interesting, given the recent discovery of water/life on the moon!

Here is the link to the K.C.Freethinkers calendar, where I got the quote about the movie (plus it tells more about the movie). I think Iggy likes for people to let him know if you are coming (either by telling him here or through email), so they can make sure of enough chairs and stuff.

Dolores Lear

Susan: (yesterday)
"INdeterminists. - You are right, Just Thinking, that indeterminism is a real part of science. -
Each of the atheists posting here has claimed that there is a natural explanation for *everything* which happens. That is precisely a statement of the fact that there can be no real free choice or free will."

Free Will is how the High Tech Science Male and Female Peace Clones Helpmeet Human Lifestyle is Lived. They Take Care of their Planet and the Life on it.

They determine on their Planet and in their Spaceships, not to Kill Any Life, and with Equal Sharing their Resources last for many Centuries.

They do not use up the Planet's Elements, for all the Unnecessary 'Things' that are not Necessary for Eternal Purebred Life on Planets and in Spaceships.

There is No Waste from Owning the Land or all kinds of Unnecessary 'Things' that Use up the Planets Resources, and especially making 7 Billion Humans on one little Planet like Earth, in 100 years.

There is No Killing, No Owning of Gods Resources, No Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth Children, to Abuse and Kill.

We are running our of Land Area to Live on, and grow food on for the Overload of Killer Humans. Killer Humans have the Planet Covered with Toxic Pollution, and Nuclear Waste and Bombs, that is making all types of Cancer and Illnesses. And Humans killing Humans in War, Starvation and Homelessness.

And All Children on Earth are brought up Brainwashed to the Way their Parents were Brainwashed. So Where Is Free Will on Earth?


Dolores Lear


In a High Tech Science Society, All are taught One Way of Equal Sharing Planetwide, No Over reproduction, and No Inhumanity, Body Birth Humans have made on Earth, with all the Divided Man-Made Religions and Governments.

How is Indeterminist a Science? It is the Fallen Human Lifestyle.

"Indeterminism is a philosophical position that maintains that some form of determinism is incorrect: that there are events which do not correspond with determinism."

High Tech Clone Human Male and Female Humans, have determinism to Keep a Clean Planet, and have Asexual Clone Helpmeets with High Tech 'Peace' ETERNAL Life After Birth, on Planets and in Spaceships.

What is Peace After Death in Heaven? It is the Return of the Living Elemens for Rebirth. The Paradise Lost of the Eternal High Tech Lifestyle of Equal Celibate Male and Female Clone Humans.

Eternal Human Life is for Alive Celibate High Tech Reproduced Equal Human Male and Female Clones, After Birth.

Eternal Life is Not for Heterosexual Male Lust Reproduced Unequal Males and Females, After Death.

What Kind of Paradise is Earth in today, covered with Toxic Pollution and Nuclear Bombs on Land and Sea?

Literal Physical Paradise on Earth was, as it was 'in the beginning', not as it is Endking today, in it's Dying Form. What happened to the Human Caretakers put in Charge of All Life on our Home Planet?

Just Thinking

Interfaith dialog begins with the a common desire expressed in asking, "What is the right thing to do?" as opposed to asking "How can I please myself and get my way?" Asking "What is the right thing to do?" is clearly a common thread among those engaging in the Interfaith Youth Alliance.

Too often people use their beliefs, their intelligence, their deeds or something else to inspire pride and ego that inevitably results in 'bragging rights' and in devaluation of others. Serving others helps undo that.

Christians should *never* think of themselves as superior to other human beings. They haven't earned that right because of anything they've done. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." It is through humbling oneself, serving, and sincerely seeking "What is the right thing to do?" that Christians find grace.

The atheists posting here have often expressed ridicule and contempt for others that they feel are less 'rational.' Obviously, they measure 'human value' by bogus standards of rationality. And yet they have no corner on rationality. In fact they've been recently found to be among the least rational on this blog because they hold the logical inconsistent beliefs that (a) everything has a natural explanation and (b) they can make choices will affect their future. Obviously any real choice we make cannot have natural explanations, or that choice was determined for us. So they're now in a 'crisis of faith' because their 'human value' is 0 by their own standards, but not by *real* standards.

Interfaith dialog must start with inherent value for all human beings, expressed in serving and in honest searching for "What is the right thing to do?" Cooperative serving expresses that value.

(EDITOR'S NOTE FROM BILL: Because of a posting error, this comment is two combined into one, thus accounting for its extra length.)

Lets not do this only in church, or special sessions, but also in public schools by teaching the history of all the major religions. History only, not as a belief.

This way the nonreligious is included, or potential nonreligious…In public schools unlike religious activities you truly get a mix of cultures. Just Thinking is an example. Keep the kids in church for more brainwashing. We nonbelievers ask Xs to our meetups often. They
rarely show. Right now I am getting ready for a Torah Study.

Just Thinking has been talking about the natural world and choices. I swear, that doggie must be getting
tired chasing its tail.

Quoting bible verses will not save you. Most Xs reading this site merely believe in the belief of god. They truly don’t believe in a jesus god. If they did, they would read
the jesus book all the way thru and abide by his rules instead of cherry picking and making up their own “lucky charms”, you know, the cereal.

If they believe in a god outside the abrahamic religions they are a spiritualist, even if they are inside this religion:

0.A medium: someone who serves as an intermediary between the living and the dead; "he consulted several
0.spiritualistic: of or relating to or connected with spiritualism
0. Spiritualism is a monotheistic belief system or religion, postulating a belief in God, but the distinguishing feature is belief that spirits of the dead can be contacted, either by individuals or by gifted or trained "mediums", who can
provide information about the afterlife.

Check this out. Personally, I don’t need a sugar coated pill to get thru life. How long do you think it will take before most people realize we are on our on? How long to truly think rationally? The people who oppose me here only have one stand. Mindless occupation. This is what they have. How can the big bang or evolution happen without a big fat brain out there in the cosmos. I wonder where that big fat brain came from?

It must be lonely talking to yourself all the time and thinking it is a supernatural hero who watches every move you make and judges you against your own thoughts.
0. an innocuous or inert medication; given as a pacifier or to the control group in experiments on the efficacy of a drug
(Roman Catholic Church) vespers of the office for the dead

Pretending to eat flesh and drink blood makes you feel good?

Check out Your own music play station. You might like, Bill.


Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

Dolores Lear

Eboo Patel: "We can -- and we must -- live in harmony. But that will not happen without strong and educated leadership."

Until we have strong and educated leadership in the Supernatural High Tech God/Us Purebred Human Birth Knowledge in Genesis 1.2, Body Birth Humans are Born to Cheat and Kill.

The Perfect Human Clones, born by High Tech Purebred Genetic and Physical Reproduction, began Male Lust Heterosexual Body Birth. Why?

'Holy Scriptures' are about a Peace God, but Humans Kill Each Other every day for God. Even Christians that are Supposed to Follow the Peace God and Jesus the Prince of Peace, Kill Christians, and All Life on the Planet. If not with a Gun than with Pollution.

In Genesis, when Humans began Body Birth, they lost their High Tech Science Knowledge, and High Tech God was recorded as Supernatural God/Us, in our Human 'Image', without High Tech Knowledge. And Religion began.

" I hope you'll engage in interfaith work yourself, whether you're a person of faith or a nobeliever. It almost certainly will deepen your commitment to your own tradition."

It is Time to commit to GOD/LIFE, not our Traditions of Man-Made Gods, our Human Ancestors. And stop building Pagan Temples with our Praying Hands, and Start Taking Care of our Planet, the Temple of GOD.

It is Time to Search All Our Scriptures and Myths, and Find the 'Literal' Truth of Eternal Equal High Tech Reproduced Human Male and Female Clone Eternal Life After Birth on Planets and in Spaceships.

High Tech Knowledge today Should Show Humans how to use Our High Tech today, for LIFE, instead of for Deadly Pollution, Military Bases, and Nuclear Bombs.

Just Thinking

Over the last decade or so, this country has really strayed from the basic principle that each individual has inherent worth, not because of what talents that they may have, or because of any standard which we set. Inherent worth exists because we are all God's creation. Evidence of that inherent worth is found in the commandment "Thou shalt not kill." Each life is sacred to God. Serving others is the way that we declare the inherent worth of others. If someone is worthy of being served, then they are as worthy as we are. If we will not serve, then we declare our worth above and beyond others'.

The value of a person's life is not measured in the dollars that they earn. Is a school teacher or a police officer less valuable than a CEO of a major corporation? What is the value of a starving child? What is the value of someone who is incapable of taking care of themselves fully? We have enough wealth in this country to offer health care, but there are those who refuse to serve others with their earnings. Their value system is wrong.

One person I know who is 60, diabetic, barely able to keep a roof over their head, was treated in emergency care for a kidney stone over a year ago and they placed a stint in him to pass it. The food he eats comes mostly from food programs, and he has an eviction notice. He now has another kidney stone. The emergency room won't remove the year-old stint because that's not emergency care, even though they say it should come out because it's pressing on his bladder. In fact, they sent him home with a 6mm stone, telling that maybe he'll pass it on his own. And if he doesn't? Will he lose a kidney?

Just Thinking

So often I have heard people say, "Why does God allow so much suffering?" The reason that question is often so mysterious is that people don't put the pieces together for themselves: God created you, right? And he made *you* concerned, right?

So if God created you, and he made *you* concerned, then what's the next step?

adam harrison

Water has been discovered on the moon; water is simply a combination of Hydrogen and Oxygen.

It is not "life"; the claim that life has been discovered on the moon is inaccurate.


Hey, Dolores, when you quoted me today, I think it was probably accidental, but you added some stuff in that was not me but was actually Just Thinking. Just to clarify -- I was the one talking about indeterminism, and Just Thinking was the one talking about the Atheists here on this blog.

Cole, when you make pronouncements about what you think most Christians on this site really believe, this is no different from Just Thinking's pronouncements about how he thinks the Atheists here don't believe humans have any choice about anything. Or Will's or Adam's continued pronouncements that they are sure I don't believe there's any such thing as truth. It's just so patronizing. I wish you'd quit (and them too).

And as to whether it feels good to take Holy Communion: It's a connection, it's a relationship. I think most of the time it feels good -- but that's not what it's all about. It's kind of like your love for your family: most of the time I am sure you have fun with your family, but I imagine that sometimes, as with everyone, there are those crappy days where you got together and it wasn't all that fun.

But you'd never consider stopping the relationship, just because sometimes it doesn't feel good. Also, you don't care if other people think you are crazy for your devotion to your kids and grandkids. You love them and you're going to be there for them ... you're a part of each other and that's what it's all about.

Dolores Lear

"Dolores, the belief in the Resurrection of Jesus was present in the first century church, long before the date of "300" that you give."

I answered this on November 13, 2009 at 08:07 PM

In case you did not see it, I gave you my reason for posting about 300.

So if you, or anyone else thinks there was a Christian Trinity Religion, with Jesus part of a 3 person Godhead, before 300, I would appreciate being made aware of it.



D.C. Council Should Not Cave In To Catholic Church’s Demands On Marriage Exemption, Says Americans United

Public Funds Should Not Subsidize Religious Discrimination By ‘Faith-Based’ Charities, Church-State Watchdog Group Asserts

November 13, 2009

The religion exemption in a proposed same-sex marriage bill adequately protects religious freedom, and the District of Columbia Council should not give in to demands from the Catholic Archdiocese that it be broadened, says Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

In a Nov. 10 statement, the Catholic Archdiocese of Washington threatened to drop contracts with the District government to provide social services, unless church programs are broadly exempted from civil rights provisions that will protect same-sex couples.

Catholic Charities DC, the social service arm of the archdiocese, received $16 million of its $23 million budget last year through governmental contracts.

Said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director, “The church’s demand is outrageous. If ‘faith-based’ charities cannot or will not obey civil rights laws, they ought not benefit from public funds.

Read the full press release at


Keep Religious Doctrine Out of the Law

Urge Your Representatives to Reject Efforts Like the Stupak Amendment

After months of negotiations and compromise, the House of Representatives was set to vote on landmark healthcare reform legislation last week. But before the legislation could make it to the floor, Speaker Pelosi and a handful of anti-choice Members of Congress received some high-level phone calls from members of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.

Pelosi's comprehensive healthcare legislation was abortion-neutral, thanks to a compromise amendment included in committee by Rep. Lois Capps (D-CA). And when House Leadership heard objections from some anti-choice lawmakers that the Capps language was not strong enough, they were open to small additional compromises on language. But the Catholic bishops took things much further. Demanding, in essence, a new ban on abortion coverage in any insurance plan participating in the new insurance "exchange," the Church hierarchy threatened to use its clout in Congress to derail the entire healthcare reform package unless its particular religious view was enshrined in the legislation. Thanks in large part to the extreme influence of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, Rep. Stupak's (D-MI) and Rep. Pitts' (R-PA) amendment was passed on the House floor, adding restrictions on access to abortion in the U.S. that are unprecedented and frightening.

For those of us who believe deeply that religion and government must function separately, these events are highly disturbing. As supporters of Americans United, you are well aware that the Constitution mandates a separation between church and state. Yet last week, we saw a new and upsetting development - the Catholic bishops have used their immense power to undermine constitutionally guaranteed rights.

This is unacceptable, and your lawmakers need to hear from you. We simply cannot allow the interests of a politically powerful religious denomination to undermine the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to Americans of all faiths and none. Please contact your members of Congress to express your views on this issue!
Tell Your Representatives Not to Enshrine Religious Doctrine Into Law

Will Graham

Just Thinking, the 60 year old you mention needs to talk to a lawyer right away! I know a couple who can get things moving.

Will Graham

Cole Morgan says they often invite believers to their studies, but they rarely show.

And when they do? Like James did? You tell stories about him and make stuff up.

So what do expect? People see what you say about beleivers on this blog, they have read hundreds of posts by Iggy, and it is plain that you guys are not that informed about history, philosphy, science, or even religion for that matter.

So they don't show.

Why act suprised?

Red Biddy

This might make you just a little more optimistic about the future of the planet

Seems like, as if, at least some of us "misbred" humans are trying to preserve our planet for future generations.


Today's show "Every Woman" on Kansas City's Community Radio KKFI 90.1 was quite interesting.

They were discussing and reading from Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

I don't know if they have podcasts in their archives.

Will Graham

For the atheist Moral Relativists who tell us there is No Truth, and their collaborators who tell us they could be wrong about EVERYTHING and anything (in effect saying the same thing), the Militant Atheist PZ Myers offers a DARWINIAN solution!

Dolores Lear

Red Biddy:
"Seems like, as if, at least some of us "misbred" humans are trying to preserve our planet for future generations."

I am concerned it is, too little, too late. Humans were thrilled with their High Tech Explosion for the Past 100 years, and until smog, etc., we learned to filter out some pollution, but Nuclear Pollution can not be controlled.

The Overall Pollution of Land, Sea, and Air, are past the Place of Return. With our Planetwide Communication today, Humans still cannot Control what the Waste from our High Tech has done to our Earth Home.

The Housekeeping on our Home Planet is not for Survival, but for Destruction.

How can our Home Planet survive with the Human Population Explosion Waste? Humans increased from 1 Billion to 7 Billion in 100 years. How about the animals?

All the Nuclear Waste is stacking up by Nuclear Plants, and by the Storage Base in Utah.

How do Humans so busy with Getting and Storing up 'Things', not necessary for Survival, and just Existing, manage to Take Care of their Home Planet?

God Will Take Care of Us?

Dolores Lear

How I now accept the Biblical 'Literal' Truth of Human Life in the Universe.

God/Us in Genesis, when Earth was null and void, Supernaturally' by High Tech Science, made an Atmosphere, friendly to the Life Species as we know it.

God/Us brought 144,000 Asexual Virgin/Celibate Males, and Reproduced Female Clones from the Male Rib, 'Supernaturally' by High Tech.

"This is where all the other Humans beside Adam and Eve, Came from on Earth. Not from Evolution.

Why did these Perfect Asexual Clone Mates, start Reproducing Human Imperfect Children by Heterosexual Body Birth? Did God make some Reproduction Mistakes?

Or is God/Us only Humans like we are, and even with High Tech Perfect Clone Reproduction, they did not catch this Imperfection in Time to Stop Body Birth Reproduction?

Once this happens God/Us Humans that do not Kill, have to let the Body Birth Humans have Free Will, to go through a Living Experience, approximately for 6000 years, to Understand the Male Sex Act to the Female, does make Imperfect Humans, that do Kill Each Other and their Home Planet.

Then maybe the 144,000 Virgin Males, in Revelation, to be Saved this Time, from there experience on our Fallen Planet, will be Able to remember Earth Dieing.

They and their Female Clone Helpmeets will be in Charge, to start their New Planet with High Tech Birth, and Everlasting Purebred Life on their New Earth, with Spaceships Travel and Contact with God/Us Humans Forever.

This is more or less the Story Religion has handed down through Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth. The God/Us Asexual Celibate Clone Males and Females, are Busy Colonizing New Planets.

And Sometimes the New Planet makes it into the Eternal Human Federation of Asexual Human Physical Life Caretakers After Birth, in their Universe.

Eternal Physical Life is for High Tech Human Clones on Planets, Who 'Know' when their Planet's Elements are no longer in Balance, and Escape their Planet, Solar System, Galaxy, or Universe, in Spaceships, for Eternal Physical Human Life After Birth.

I’ll tell you the right thing to do, have your now mind. A man of god yesterday, a Jew, asked me how I taught the right thing to do to my daughters, I being an atheist. I said we all know what is right. He chuckled and said, “I agree.” He reminded me of this: “You don’t have to leave your brain outside of this bible study.”

I enjoyed my Torah study yesterday at the synagogue. The members participated more than most X bible studies I have attended.

Teaching young people in public schools about ‘all’ major religions is a huge step forward. What Bill is promoting here is a very good thing. How we can carry this farther, is even better. We KCFreethinkers are headed in the right direction. Just watch. We all make errors along the way. If we learn from these, then it was worth it. If you can’t venture outside your own belief, then you are blocking what can be learned. Life is too short to be unfair, especially to children.

I didn’t say one thing bad about Jim Christianson, Will. You weren’t there. Jim has his own opinion about me, let him say it. Why does he need you to say my thoughts about him? I bare Jim no ill will, Will. He and I disagree about the god myth, so what? People, before jesus, knew the right thing to do. Before the jewish god we new the right thing to do…To say most of the world, for not believing in jesus, is wrong, is wrong. Most of us know right from wrong.

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

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