Saving the children: 11-10-09
An old charge refuted: 11-12-09

A time for requiems: 11-11-09

For this Veterans Day, colored by the sadness of yesterday's services at Fort Hood, I thought it would be appropriate to share with you a bit of music I recorded the other evening at the "Requiem and Remembrance 2009" event at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in downtown Kansas City.

Musicnotes

What you will hear is about five minutes of the opening of the world premier of "Requiem for Peace," by Mario Pearson, director of music at the Catholic cathedral. The clip opens with about 20 seconds of silence. I didn't know it at the time, but I should have kept the recorder going for about another minute and a half and you could have heard all of the opening piece, "Introit and Requiem Aeternam."

I was sitting in the next to the last row and the orchestra and chorus were directly over our heads in a balcony section that contains the organ keyboard.

To hear a five-minute clip, click on this link:

Download Requiem-09

The Pearson piece was spectacular, as I hope you can tell from this small audio taste, and the acoustics in the cathedral are excellent.

A requiem is a widely used type of music designed to plead for the repose of the dead. Perhaps my favorite is by John Rutter -- but only because I've been part of a choir that has sung it. For a video taste of the Rutter piece, click here.

The Catholic cathedral was full the other night, and when it was over, we walked, carrying candles, a block and a half or so through the downtown streets to a reception at Grace and Holy Trinity Cathedral, the Episcopal church that works with the Catholic cathedral to put on this annual event.

Msgr. Robert Gregory of Immaculate Conception and Dean Terry White of Grace & Holy work well together and present an excellent model of ecumenical cooperation. After the event, both Terry and Robert told me of some joking e-mail they shared recently in which Terry told Robert he was not among the Anglicans who would be joining the Catholic Church (in response to a recent and controversial Vatican overture), though Terry did tell Robert that he'd think about it if he could start as a monsignor. Everyone had a good laugh at that.

On Veterans Day we remember our military dead. We give thanks for their service on our behalf. And those of us who are people of faith pray that they are safely in God's eternal company. A requiem of the quality of Pearson's or Rutter's is a perfect way to say all that.

And if you'd like to hear and see the whole Rutter requiem by an Episcopal choir in Alabama, click here.

* * *

SOMEONE NEEDS A CONSTITUTION 101 CLASS

A federal judge in South Carolina has ruled that the state cannot issue a license plate that contains a cross, a stained glass window and the words "I believe." Good heavens. Yes, there are some difficult church-state cases that involve careful judgment, but how do such obviously unconstitutional practices as this ever get to the courts?

Comments

Just Thinking

Soldiers who have died did not cease to exist.

If you have the wisdom and confidence to know that you can make choices which can alter your future, then you know that there is more to our existence than the physical Universe and Science.

If Science and physical law could predict everything, then there would be no choices that you could make because all those choices would be determined by Science. So, if you believe that you have the ability to make choices of any kind, then you already know and believe in the supernatural which influences this world, but which is not governed by laws of Science.

Everyone knows deep inside that they are able to make choices which will change their future. Contained in that belief is the assumption that there's much more than mere physical law. Spirit is that which transcends the physical, which influences the physical, but which is not dictated by physical law. Spirit is a supernatural part of each and every person. And *everyone* believes that they make choices which are not dictated by physical law. *Everyone* believes that they have some ability to choose to alter the course of their own lives and, so, everyone believes in spirit. Some are just not honest enough to admit it.

Spirit lives on after this physical existence ceases. Our essence, our true free will, our free spirit transcends mere physical existence. Spirit does not require this physical Universe in order to exist.

One of the choices that each and every one of us can make in order to alter our course is to believe in God and in His saving grace. We know that we have the ability to choose what to believe. The configuration of our molecules does not make that choice for us. WE do. Spiritual WE.

Will Graham

Bill, regarding the services at Fort Hood, I notice that President Obama said the crimes committed would be met with justice in this world, "and the next"...does not sound to me like he is siding with atheism.

As to the license plates, though; well, don't believers pay taxes too? "No taxation without representation was one of the rallying cries of the American Revolution."

And JUST THINKING, that 5:59 pm post yesterday is bizarre; I would say it borders on threatening. I would strongly advise against any private meetings you might have been considering.

Dolores Lear

Yesterday.
Red Biddie:
"I'm really glad that "Jesus will get his Female Clone when he goes with God/us to be the Leader on a New Planet.., -
Doesn't quite fit with .....and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence He'll come to judge the quick and the dead... ."

Jesus also ascended into Heaven, and sat at the right hand of the Father, when he left Earth, in a Spaceship. And will return the Same Way.

Red Biddie:
"your's is a better idea, and I'm sure Jesus will be grateful - although I hope you will let him stop being celibate on your new planet. I'd think he'd like that. LOL"

Ha Ha. :)
Jesus knew Male Lust made Earth a Killer Planet. I cannot stop him being celibate, and now he has been Regenerated to Purebred Asexual, like God/Us Male and Female Clones, in Genesis.

What do you mean on 'my' new planet? I will have to be born again on Earth a Celibate Male, to make it with God/Us and Jesus when they return, and take a Group to their New Planet. It will not be to my New Planet. LOL.

I accept the ones Saved from Earth is the 144,000 Virgin Males recorded in Revelation. And the females will be Reproduced Asexual Clones of the Males, on the New Planet like the Adam Group of 144,000 Virgin Males were on Earth.

The Asexual Female Clones were Reproduced from the Male Rib. Our Planet is Past Saving, to start a New 'Peace' Civilization here.

The Bible Teaches the Saved will Start Again, like Life began on Earth 'in the beginning, with Males, and their Female Helpmeets, made from the Male Rib.

If Jesus did not Marry and have Children when he was here the First time, why would he like it when he returns? He Knows what Male Lust did to our Planet, and Body Birth Children.

Like 'Operation Breakthrough', with 600 Poverty Stricken Children a Day.

Just Thinking

Everyone needs to consider this basic question: what part of a person makes the choices which alter their future? Are choices made within your physical being? If Science determines everything about you, then you are left with *no* choices, because Science would decide for you! I repeat: if Science determines everything about you, then it determines what will happen, and you have no real choices. You could not possibly change a thing if physical law determines everything that happens.

So, if you believe that you can actually make choices which will affect the future, then you *must* believe that there is something which is not governed and determined by physical law, but which influences your physical existence. We call that spirit. Free will and the ability to make choices is part of your spirit.

The athiests here on this blog have come to a critical crossroad where they must face their own beliefs. KCFreeThinkers.org continually declares that they can make choices, that they do make choices, and yet they believe that Science dictates everything that they can choose to do. They have reached a crisis in their thinking where they're caught believing directly contradictory things.

This is why each person needs to think about what part of their being makes choices. That part cannot be governed and dictated by Science. Choices are spiritual, not determined by the physical. And each person needs to think about the choices that they make, and how those choices will affect their spirit which lives on after this physical existence ceases.

Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now CHOOSE life, so that you and your children may live.

Dolores Lear

Bill:
"A Requiem, is a widely used type of music designed to plead for the repose of the dead."

Why? Religion teaches it is Possible for Humans to Live forever in Perfect Physical Bodies like God/Us Has, in our Physical Image, when they Colonized Earth with Perfect High Tech Born Human Clones with Eternal Physical Life also.

Why did these Perfect Human Clones, Reproduce Imperfect Body Birth Human Children, that resulted in Death. Man-Made Religions and Requiems for the Dead began.

Today High Tech Humans Know the Body Elements Decay into the Living Elements from which they became Living Physical Life. Dirt to Dirt, Dust to Dust.

With High Tech, Humans Know They can Reproduce Humans, in a High Tech Lab, like God/Us Reproduced Humans in Genesis 1,2.

So why have Music to plead to God, for the repose of the dead that Humans or Disease Kills? Life is up to Humans on our Home Planet, not the Gods that are also Humans.

When Perfect Humans started Reproducing Children by Body Birth, they Reproduce Killers, and Disease and Death began. The Life Elements from the Living Forms on Earth, return to Element form, used again, until their Earth and Sun/Solar System Dies.

What does it Help for Humans to Plea for the Repose of the Dead, when They are the Killers of LIFE on their Planet. Exactly Who are they Pleading to? Our High Tech Ancestors that gave them Free Will to be the Caretakers of Life on their Planet?

To Be or Not to Be High Tech Equal Male and Female Caretakers, is the Question for Killer Body Birth Humans today, with Requiem Music, or Balanced Elements?

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

I don't have a problem with "Xian" vanity license plates as long as the groups who petition for them pay all the needed permits and the licence plates are not free.

If I recall in KS there will be a license plate as well and the petitioners could not raise $10,000 for the permit, so the legislature waived the fee.

What a travesty of ratonality and clear accomodation of one religion over others.

Wait till followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster get their lincene plate in KS with the words "I eat pasta, therefore I am".
----------------------
Re: Obama refering to "after life" in Ft. Hood ceremony - no doubt he is blessed by the new cloned brained by Hannibal Lector and refers to "spaghetti heaven" and "hell" of His Holiness The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
_______________
Last night at Scooters was a blast - we took over the shop. There were at least 25 people roaming around, jamming, chatting away.

Looks like we are outgrowing the Scooters store and may move the KS FreeThought and Singles Meetup to BlackDog coffee house next month. Or we may keep one of the groups at Scooters and move the other one. We'll see.
_______________
Planning to start another meetup group for "gaytheists" which will be targeting gays, lesbians, transgender atheists and theists as teh name implies.

Membership in the group doesn't mean you have to be a "deviant and sinner" practicing "unnatural" sexual acts. You can be "gay" in sense of "happy" - atheist or theist.

Jesus is welcome to come any time too - so any of you who talk to him regularly, please pass this on.

Susan

Bill, thank you for sharing those Requiem clips. I am sorry we missed that wonderful event. I will try to watch the whole Rutter Requiem later today. It means a lot to me to be getting to know a faith tradition where people pray for the repose of the dead. I am also glad that Grace and Holy Trinity Cathedral has this covenantal relationship with the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception -- and that their leaders are friendly enough to make jokes back and forth.

It is wonderful to me to be able to pray for my grandparents (even the ones I've never met), my aunts and uncles, and especially my neice who died (five months into her first pregnancy, though she lost her son just before she died) a few months before I became pregnant with my youngest. The last time I saw my neice was at the family Christmas gathering which was in her home.

My previous Christian instruction had been along the lines of "There is absolutely no point in praying for the dead ... their choice about Jesus in this life has completely sealed their fates." The Anglican/Episcopalian and Catholic way (and I think also the Orthodox and Lutheran way) seem much more compatible with a loving God who I believe created humans to be lifelong learners. Since he has given us eternal life, I can't see any reason why He would abruptly end our potential for growth and change at the moment of our physical death.

I can't imagine any enjoyment in an eternity where I can't keep learning and growing, though I imagine I'll gain a new perspective on what that means, and on what enjoyment is, in eternity, too.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Just Thinking wrote>>>>>>>>If Science determines everything about you, then you are left with *no* choices, because Science would decide for you! I repeat: if Science determines everything about you, then it determines what will happen, and you have no real choices.

Just Thining, you don't differentiate between "reality" shaping our bodies, mental abilities and "science" - our human "understanding" of the "reality".

"Understanding/science" doesn't determine anything. "Reality/intrinsic characteristics/laws of the world that we "assign" properties to" shape us.

Hence your clinging to Frank Turek and William Lane Craig, Dembsky/Behe/Discovery Institute nonsense which is also supported by your personal "theistic" nonsense of Xianity.

"Science" doesn't dictate anything :o) It cannt dicate anyting. It's what you want "yourself" to make out of it.

If you look at the world from the "normal/non supernatural" view - bird's eye view this is the only conclusin you arrive at.

You can dress up your creationism into theism/deism/intelligent designism all you want.

But if you don't get that "science" and "universe/reality of it" are different things, may your god help you.

Maybe you and Dan Beyer need to come to our meetups and talk about inteligent design? Do search for "Dan Beyer intelligent design" - you'll see his posts on Kansas Citizens for Science and also some local Kansas City blogs.

Just Thinking

KCFreeThinkers.org,

My statement extends to the broadest possible language that you can use, KCFreeThinkers.org.

REALITY: If a 'choice' could be perfectly predicted, then it is not a choice. If a 'choice' could be perfectly predicted, then you had *no* choice.

'Choice' and 'predictable' are incompatible words.

Each of us has some choices that we can make, which will change our future reality. That's free will, and everybody knows that they have some free will. Even you have claimed it, KCFreeThinkers.org. It's limited, but it exists. We know from a young age that we can alter our world and our own reality by choices.

It doesn't matter how your try to recast this by talking about 'shaping forces' or 'external forces' or 'physical law'. It doesn't matter. If a 'choice' could be perfectly predicted, then it is not a choice.

Accepting that you have choices you can make, no matter how few or how small, leaves you with the inescapable conclusion that there are things you can do in your life which cannot be predicted by anything in this physical Universe. Those things are beyond today's Science to explain, and will be beyond tomorrow's Science to explain. Nothing can or will ever perfectly explain a choice, or it was not a choice to begin with.

Maybe you don't make choices, KCFreeThinkers.org. Maybe you are a robot, and nothing more. Maybe you are. But I'm not. I have the ability to think for myself, and to believe or not believe. My future is altered by those choices. I have some free will. Maybe you don't. But if you *choose* to believe that, then it *will* alter your reality. Make no mistake about it.

The part of us which makes choices necessarily transcends this physical Universe. That is spirit. Robots don't have spirits. They don't choose.

Dolores Lear

Bill:
"On Veterans Day we remember our military dead."

Many Soldiers, Religious and Atheist, have Died for the USA. It is Time to Alter our Future, to Equality for All Earth's Citizens, in a Planetary Armistice Day.

All Humans Live Under The Same Sky. The USA should not have Religious or Atheists Symbols, on anything pertaining, to the USA Government or State Governments to Divide Us.

JT:
"Soldiers who have died did not cease to exist.
If you have the wisdom and confidence to know that you can make choices which can alter your future, then you know that there is more to our existence than the physical Universe and Science."

Why Do Humans Keep Fighting Each Other, over Earth's Resources, Religions, and Governments? And teach Equality?

An Option: Join as One Equal Planetary Human Race, with Equal Sharing of Earth's Resources without a Price Tag, with Peace and Equality for All? Impossible for Body Birth Natural Born Killers?

Life is for Living Humans, Not for the Dead, whose Elements change into Original Elements from which they were made. Why be obsessed about an Invisible World while Living in the Visible One.

Wasting our Human Energy, for Killing and Dying to go to that Other World, does not bring Peace on Planet Earth, but Death to our Planet.

Purebred Perfect Humans, Like God/Us Humans came to Earth 'in the beginning'. They do Have High Tech Physical Equal Male and Female Clone Peace Life, in Spaceships and on Planets like Earth.

Why did Human Clones they put here, begin Heterosexual Generation Body Birth, Death, and Rebirth?

trapblock

Hey there Susan,

You know the Church and 'Old Testament' Jews have always prayed for the dead. I'm sure you are familiar with the Church teaching on purgatory (the Jews called it Sheol).

The leader of the protestant revolt, Martin Luther, didn't think it (praying for the dead) fit with his view of things so he threw out select parts of the Bible.

Find a Catholic Bible and check out 2 Maccabees... it was part of the Holy Scriptures as Jesus knew them (when he walked the Earth). I'm not sure who Luther was referencing as authority but he mislead a lot of people (and still is).

Dolores Lear

Wow! My daughter and I went to Ameristar's Movie Theater and saw "This Is It" with Michael Jackson. I was never a fan of Michael's, but this Documentary was fantastic. He was really good, and was at the top of his Career.

Too bad he had drug and sleep problems. He had a wonderful section, about How we are Polluting and Killing our Planet. The Movie only cost $5. for the 11:30 AM showing. A wonderful Remembrance for Michael, fan or non fan.

JT:
"Spirit lives on after this physical existence ceases. Our essence, our true free will, our free spirit transcends mere physical existence. Spirit does not require this physical Universe in order to exist.

Michael had a wonderful Gentle Spirit.

I disagree with JT. The Atoms that make Physical Bodies, and the Electro-Magnetic Force both live on as Elements, once the Physical 'Body and 'Soul/Spirit' die. No Elements in the Universe are lost. They just change forms.

Elements can become out-of-Balance, and the Universe Collapse into a Black Hole, but they do Regenerate and become the Big Bang to make a New Universe.

There would be No Universe, if the Atoms died and only Spirit/ElectroMagnetic Force Lived.

And like God/Us, our High Tech Science Male and Female Clone Helpmeets, the do Live Forever in Physical Bodies on Planets and in Spaceships.

They are Earth Time at least 12, 000 years old since they Came to Earth 'in the beginning'. And Jesus is Alive with them and is 2,033 years old, Earth Time.

They are Proof that Humans can Live Forever with High Tech Science Regeneration, and Spaceships that Time Travel between Universes.

Supernatural was a term used by Body Birth Human Man-Made Religions, without High Tech Science.

Eternal Human Physical Life is 'Literally' True for High Tech Purebred Asexual Celibate Human Males and their Female Clones.

Red Biddy

The Rutter Requiem is beautiful Bill, also the Pearson "Requiem for Peace", although if you think about it - such a title is rather sad as it rather indicates that hope for "peace" is for ever a forlorn hope.
Traplock wrote that Martin Luther "threw out" the apocryphal books -this isn't quite accurate. Luther just placed the books at the back of the Bible in his time, I think. I still have an old copy of the Apocrypha my mother a staunch Church of England used to read with great delight which would indicate that these books although excluded from the King James version, were always readily available to Protestants, despite Luther's disapproval.
I dug out this info about the Apocrypha on the internet which might be of interest.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enUS317US318&q=apcrypha+who+threw+out+these+books

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

VIEWING OF MOVIE "DARWIN'S DARKEST HOUR"

Atheists, theists, deists, devil worshippers, intelligent design buffs are all invited!!!

Sunday, Nov 22
7 p.m.

In recognition of the 150th anniversary of the publication of the "Origins of Species", please join KCFreeThinkers.org for a viewing of this great feature movie.

We'll start about 7 p.m. Refreshments will be provided.

The viewing will be in a private residence on the West Edge of Johnson County towards Lawrence on K-10 (in Eudora, KS).

Please, RSVP to KCFreeThinkers@gmail.com for address and directions.

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

REST IN PEACE. A Plead for the repose of the dead? When people die they are not resting. Rest is something we do in the natural world. We take a break and relax. We don’t relax when we are dead. We are dead. Look up the word -DEAD – now, because when you are dead, you won’t be able to read either.

I listened, Bill. Harps in heaven? To me this music is cryptic, morbid. Not fun. I’m for fun and uplifting…

As I look thru Immaculate conception site as the slide show replaces one to another it makes me wonder why we believe in winged people in this day and age. I find this rather bizarre this kind of time and money spent on THIS KIND OF beauty, which is obviously some kind of hypnotist trick. Good thing we have choices in music. I wonder if god plays an instrument.

Bill posted, “On Veterans Day we remember our military dead. We give thanks for their service on our behalf. And those of us who are people of faith pray that they are safely in God's eternal company. A requiem of the quality of Pearson's or Rutter's is a perfect way to say all that.

I think it would be more beneficial for humankind to spend more time on the living. How about more time in science? Spending it on burials and the dead is being selfish. We spend billions in USA alone

If there is a god it is not of these abrahamic fairy tale books. For one thing, I hope the biblical god is not the actual god because he is rather boring bellowing fire and brimstone, killing himself to save the people he created in his image. What? What does this mean? He creates us in his image then punishes us for it. We are now SINNERS…? Continued

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

continued
If we have spontaneous choices to do whatever at any given time, then what good are plans. If we have choices what good is one grand plan if we are not told what is this GRAND PLAN. Makes no sense, sounds like a dog chasing its tail…
People have some choices. They have a choice to go to church or to one of our meetups. Our groups are growing, 33, 35, 25, at meetups and averaging 15 or so afterwards for social times. In one year this has come from only a few - 10 or so. What does this mean? Is god guiding, with his plan, people to our groups? Or is that the devil? Did the devil make choices. Does god? The devil is for freewill as is god.

Once again this kind of talk gets us nowhere. Promote science and education, now that makes a difference.

I predict music will change in the future. Predicting, that is guessing what happens in the future, can be entertaining, but it doesn’t make anybody a prophet because it came true. You just got lucky. The more educated you are on the subject, perhaps the more lucky you are.

I don’t care what you put on your license plate. For me it just says something about the driver. If you have something religious on your plate it warns me about their driving, I hope they are obeying traffic laws and not relying on divine guidance. For me license plates are a reality gage.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Peace For the Sake of FUN Cole

Red Biddy

Goldstein,

I did respond to your post of yesterday but it got put in yesterday also, even though I commented on it to-day. My mistake.
So, please don't think I was ignoring yours...the image of Hitchens was hilarious ! Thanks.

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