Muslims hitting stardom: 10-2-09
Admitting church failure: 10-5-09

Learning religious variety: 10-3/4-09

I was quite heartened to see the gathering. This past Wednesday about 50 people collected in a large classroom at the United Methodist Church of the Resurrection in Overland Park, Kan., to spend most of a day learning about the many world religions practiced by people in the Kansas City area.

WorldReligions

Clearly, these were people who understand that the mandate of this century in America is to find ways for people of various religious traditions to live together in harmony.

Who are all these people? That's the question I put to Shannon Clark, executive director of the event's sponsoring organization, the Greater Kansas City Interfaith Council. At least a third of them, she said, were hospital chaplains.

Of course. Hospital chaplains each day face the task of responding to patients with all kinds of religious commitments (including none at all). Increasingly in recent years these chaplains are coming to understand the need to pay attention to the different needs and customs of people from a variey of religious backgrounds.

In addition, she said, there were other clergy and simply adults (the crowd was mostly middle-aged or older) who have an interest in learning more.

I couldn't stay for the whole event, but was glad to be there to hear the Rev. Vern Barnet (pictured here) provide a broad outline of religious approaches and to describe which religions could be put under which category. Vern's primary three were Primal, Asian and Monotheistic. He acknowledges the categories are imprecise and there's some overlap, but they can be helpful learning tools.

A few other points Vern made:

VernBarnet

* Although there is much evidence that religion can be the source of strife, "I think religion can be the source of the wisdom that can lead us to peace."

* In a shrinking world, "we have access to planetary wisdom. But there's a lot of crap out there, too." That includes some textbooks that simply get some facts about religion wrong.

* It's worthwhile asking people what is sacred to them. By sacred, Vern means "that on which our lives depend. What we can't do without. It is the source of ultimate meaning in our lives." Vern believes each of the three religious categories has insights into what is sacred and we need to draw on those insights to help us solve the various crises humanity faces, including the environmental crisis.

I wish everyone could find ways to learn about many religious traditions -- not so people can convert from one to another but so they won't live in fear of what they don't understand.

* * *

A QUALIFIED VATICAN AMBASSADOR?

There's a new American ambassador to the Vatican, just received by Pope Benedict XVI, and he's a theologian. Miguel Humberto Diaz is Cuban-American, born in Havanna and raised in Miami. He has taught theology. Good. But wouldn't it be nice if all American ambassadors knew as much about their subject?

Comments

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Will said, “It is not even the view of scholars they love around here, like John Shelby Spong.”

I believe it was you or your clone, Adam, who said Spong was an atheist.

Will what does it prove if scholars believe that jesus was a real man? It only proves he was a man just like every other human being. What does it prove the old testament was written by Jews? What does it prove that the new testament was written by jews and others, Nothing, Only that the bible was written by people.

When I said, in the past, I don’t believe jesus was a real man, it is only my opinion, not every atheist’s opinion. Jesus, Adam, get a life, get a brain. I mean that in the nicest way. I saw a rock on the way home and thought about you.

I don’t care either way whether jesus was a real man or not. It proves nothing. The fact that a man named jesus or george existed doesn’t prove an existence of a biblical god.

What better way to prove the prophesies of the old testament than to write a new testament to answer these. You make up anything you wish, as did all myths.

I find it amusing in these biblical stories, which is what they are, stories, there is always one person who has a sign from god and the others, like sheep, like children, follow him with whatever commands he says. This is fable writing. This is how myths were written. It teaches people to follow authority whether it is right or not. It is all about power, JT. Accept authority without reason. We must have rules, but they must be fair to all.

Why is the grass green? ‘Because god made it green theory’ does not promote advancement in a civilized society.

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

Dolores Lear

Vern Barnet: "In a shrinking world, we have access to planetary wisdom. But there's a lot of crap out there, too."

Biblical Wisdom. The Noah Flood. Genesis 6:12. KJV."And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth." (Earth today?) Genesis 7. 2,3. "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beast that are not clean by two, the male and his female. Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 7 pairs of beast and fowl? What we are trained as a child, seems to set what we accept as an adult.

Genesis 7:4. "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth." Genesis 7:13. "In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark:" Genesis 7:10. "And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth."

Noah was in the Ark 7 days. Genesis 7:12. "And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights." Noah was in the Ark 1 month and 17 days. Genesis 7:11. "In the six hundredth years of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." The Earth's Top Strata and the atmosphere was changed.

Continued.

Dolores Lear

Continue.
Genesis 7:19, 20. "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered."

Genesis 7:23. "And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, - and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark."

Genesis 7:24. "And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days." 5 months. Noah in Ark 6 months 17 days. Genesis 8: 1-2. "And God remembered Noah and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged; The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;" The Earth's Top Strata and Atmosphere was changed.

Genesis 8:3,4. "And the waters returned from off the earth continually; - And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeen day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat." Noah in Ark, 7 months 17 days.

Continue.

Dolores Lear

Continue.
I looked at a polar projection map of Earth, and South America made an upward turn and joined North America with Europe. Religion and Science teach Earth's land mass was joined Originally. On a flat map of Earth, I saw the split of the Arctic and Atlantic Ocean, down the middle of the land area, and then understood the Noah Flood, and the Sinking of Atlantis that split down the middle, were the same Planet Catastrophe.

Has anyone been taught the Noah Flood like Scriptures describes it? I was shown this February 23, 1971. My Pastor did not accept it. He said the Flood was a 40 day local flood; as most people accept. I resigned from Church. I started writing papers. My neighbor and her two daughters accepted this, the next day, but when I was led to understand Jesus was not GOD, they did not accept this. And no one else accepts the Earth was Colonized, by High Tech Human Purebred Male and Female Clones/God us in our Image.

All these High Tech Understandings in the Bible happened to me, as our Science was investigating Colonizing another Planet, and was finding out about Genetics, and did Reproduce fetus' in the Lab. And Cloned animals.

Posting on Bill's Blog has helped me explain the Bible has two different Gods recorded. The Peace High Tech Ancestors that Colonized Earth, and the Noah/Atlantis Killer Society, that reunderstood High Tech and Misused it, like Humans have for the past 100 years. What has Killing Each Other, Toxic Pollution and Nuclear Bombs have to do with GOD/LIFE or God/Us our High Tech Human Peace Ancestors?

Will Graham

Well Bill, in the case of atheism we HAVE learned abour the other side...we have been to their meetings, their book studies, their lectures, and are familiar with all the main New Atheist books and many of their blogs.

And we have learned that they want us to SHUT UP and DIE.

Its not just the postings here, of course. The most amusing example comes from Sam Harris, author of TEOF "Some propositions are so dangerous, that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them." (pages 52-53, TEOF)

So what is posted here did not just pop up on the whim of one poster...its a whole trend; and even what is posted here is a product of the educational system of an officially atheistic government.

Bill how long are you going to keep running away from what is being promoted ON THIS VERY BLOG?

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Bill wrote>>>>>>>>I wish everyone could find ways to learn about many religious traditions -- not so people can convert from one to another but so they won't live in fear of what they don't understand.

Let's not waste our time, Bill, let's pitch the idea of religious exucation to local school boards in KS and MO? This way it will begin with kids and not end with adults. Kids will be able to absorb the religious basics pretty quickly thus creating a good foundation for the future.

The problem is that "righteous" religious parents will stand up in arms. The vocal Christian History Deniers (I am sure there will be Jewish and Mulsim History Deniers too) will do everything they can to isolate their children from "evil" governemnt and "false" idols.

At some point, we have to understand that only government can stand up and do it - "Just Do it". I recall reading an article about introduction of comparative religion in a school board in Canada - some 10-20% of parents applied to withdraw their kinds; every single one was denied.

I think it's important for alchemists to understand there are Tarot cards and palm readers, as well as for astrologers to know that there are Voodoo worshippers and that they will have to live with each other.

Most important thing, at some point, someone will think to themselves "What a load of crap this other religion is, and I see so many similiarities to mine! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm - I wonder if this can be right?"

Either way, you cannot lose when children learn more.

Also, this will save them a lot of money when they go to college and profesors don't have to teach them basics on their own "borrowed" college money like this is happening with math, chemistry, and physics all over the country - high school kids come in general not prepared for these sciences in college.

Dolores Lear

Miguel Humberto Diaz, new American ambassador to the Vatican, is Cuban-American. He has taught theology.

Vern Barnet:
"It's worthwhile asking people what is sacred to them"

Bill: I wish everyone could find ways to learn about many religious traditions

Missouri Synod Lutheran Children are taught about God, at Confirmation at age 13. Train up a child....?

Luther's SMALL Catechism.
25, What is God?
"God is a spirit" John 4:24. (A being endowed with mind and will but without a body, Luke 24:39.)

God is -
A. Eternal (without beginning and without end); Psalm 90:1,2.
B. Unchangeable: Malachi 3:6. Psalm 102:27.
C. Omnipotent: (Almighty, all-powerful); Genesis 17:1. Luke 1:37. Matthew 19:26.
D. Omniscient: (all-knowing), Psalm 139:1-4 John 21:17.
E. Omnipresent (present everywhere); Jeremiah 23:24.
F. Holy (sinless and hating sin) Leviticus 19:2, Isaiah 6:3.
G. Just (fair and impartial); Deuteronomy 32:4.
H. Faithful (keeping His promises); 2 Timothy 2:13
I. Benevolent (good, kind, desiring our welfare) Psalm 145:9.
J. Merciful (full of pity); Psalm 145:9.
K. Gracious (showing undeserved kindness; Exodus 34:6,7.! John 4:8.

26. Who is the only true God? (6 references)

27. How are the three divine Persons distinguished from each other? - -
To the Father especially is ascribed the work of 'Creation'; to the Son, the work of Redemption; to the Holy Ghost, the work of 'Sanctification'. (3 references) - - -

32. When do we love God above all things?
We love God above all things when 'with our whole heart we cling to Him' as to our God and gladly devote our lives to His service." (3 references)

How I was trained up as a Child. My posts now, are about this Religious God/Us in our Human Image, that are our High Tech Science Clone Human Ancestors from Space.

Dolores Lear

On my middle post, I left out the End of the Noah Flood that lasted over 1 year.

Genesis 8:3,4. "And the waters returned from off the earth continually; - And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeen day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat."
Noah in Ark, 7 months 17 days.

Genesis 8:5. "And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen."
Noah in Ark 10 months, 17 days.

Genesis 8:6. "And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark -.
1 month, 10 days. Noah in Ark, 11 months, 27 days.

Noah sent forth a raven. Sent a dove. Sent a dove.

Genesis 14. "And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried."
Noah in Ark 1 year, 1 month and 27 days.

(Then I looked at a map.)

Does any of the Christian Religions teach this Time Line, about the Noah Flood?

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Re: interfaith education...

I find it interesting that it is virtually every time "adults" only who get interested in other religions - small children of course would not be able to use their gawd given "free will" to make a decision for themselves about it, teen agers can get interested but the overwhelming majority is not.

Therefore it is up to their parents and local school boards to pick up the initiative and run with it. What's important is that the parents are "intellectually honest" with each other and their kids and they have to admit that "knowledge is power" and "knowledge" doesn't only involve their particular god though "fundies" appear to think that way only.

I am reading "The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution" (the book is a pretty good and easy read though there are some technicalities on genetics) and it's pretty clear that "any" societal change of major proportions changes humans genetically, selects them for advantageous traits and surely somewhere "codes" for the genes that will in one way or another effect the next generation or maybe "neutral".

Apparently Biblical "nothing is new under the Sun" is not applicable to anthropological genetics. The same kids today who are spending hours and hours on computers, Wii, X-Box and PlayStation are undergoing genetic mutations that may or may not have an effect in the next generation. The overwhelming majority of kids today are "secular" 99% of the time, only religous on Sundays, hence genetically it cannot but have an effect.

It has been calculated that the larger the population is the faster the "favorable" genetic mutation spreads - e.g. among 100 mln people it would take twice as much as among 10,000 people.

(Continued)

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

(Continued)

Society puts constraints on us "understanding" mutations as they are "unseen" in our life time. And this is where the concept of God will lose out eventually as people get more and more educated and though societal changes (weather, geography, kind of food we eat) are going to always change and lead to new genetic variations (blue eyes in Europeans, lactose tolerance, lighter skin, rich oxygen level in high altitute Andes people's blood vs. Tibetan's shallow breathing but faster breathing) the genes that prolifirate will eventually win.

Of course, religous people can be multiplying like rabbits, then they will win, but society is a different animal. Human (not god's laws) of rationality almost always prevail and will suppress the "unfavorable" irraitonal genes and most likely "irrational" behavior.

Gawd will be dead in the mind of the people through evolutionary anthropology.

P.S. Check out a new study that just came out - by 2030 25% of Americans will be "irrelgious" or "nones" - this is just 20 years out. The "selfish gene" of rationality (or any other gene that gives advantage to the population) takes over in larger populations statistically much faster than in smaller groups. So, in Western Europe religion is pretty much done with. Now, only developing world when they catch up economically will do the same - the "selfish meme" of "rationality" will have no doubt take over the "irrational realm of religion"

Susan

Bill, I met a hospital chaplain once who really got me fascinated about what he does. I recalled that when people are admitted, they check off what religion they are, so I wondered if he was assigned specifically to Christian patients. He had mentioned that his fellow chaplains were from a variety of different religions, so I thought maybe they just matched 'em up with patients of the corresponding religion.

He said he was assigned to any patient who wanted a chaplain -- and, you know, that really makes sense. It means chaplains develop an understanding of all the different traditions, and they lovingly meet people where they are at. This makes sense because God is God regardless of where we came from or how we were raised to think about the spiritual.

I think hospital chaplains are really choosing the path of love and understanding, over the path of pushing their point of view. This is real love, to meet people where they are at and BE the love of God to them.

adam harrison

Cole Morgan, regard your assertions regarding the existence of Jesus mentioned in the first post today, you previouly argued that he did not exist.

Well, in any discussion of Jesus, we have to start somewhere; in your case it is with your uniformed assertions that he didn't exist.

Apparently you are now backtracking in your remark that you now don't care if he was real or not. (Exactly, you don't care...you are beyond rational discussion.)

And you say that the fact that he did exist proves nothing?

It proves you were wrong about that point.

And thats a good start!

By the way, you say you saw a rock on the way home and thought about me?

Don't you get tired of making threats?

adam harrison

Iggy is lying about the study he quotes. It says that by 2030 20 percent may be "nones", not 25 percent, but of those less than a third are atheists.

By the way, promoting religion in schools is unconstitutional.

So is denigrating it.

If anyone has info on teachers doing that, let us know. We know someone who is ready to bring a lawsuit in that regard.

(Cole, don't bellyache about lawsuits...your buddy Dan Barker makes a nice little living out of suing religous groups and you keep bragging about Dover. What goes around comes around, sport!)

Lynne - www.kcfreethinkers.org

Susan wrote: >I think hospital chaplains are really choosing the path of love >and understanding, over the path of pushing their point of view. This is real >love, to meet people where they are at and BE the love of God to them.

This is good news. I have no problem with hospital chaplains being available to a wide variety of people who might want their services with no agenda but to be helpful. When I was younger I used to be a little nervous about answering the "religion" question on hospital forms until I understood why they were asking.

Just Thinking

It's fascinating that Dolores, Cole, KCFreeThinkers.org devote regular time and energy every day to tearing down Christianity. Why? I understand the person who is devoted to God and Jesus, and why they want to make sure that others know the good news of the Gospel message. That makes sense, and it's a necessary part of a Christian's life.

So what becomes the motive for someone who does not seek the glory of the one who sent them? Interestingly, Jesus answered that very question: "He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him."

I think that's key. Glory-thirsty people can become so desperate to promote their *own* glory that they can't back down from it. That's often the way that sin works--it becomes addiction from which you must be rescued. But you have to want to be rescued, which usually means being faced with ruin of some kind.

I ran across a college student's atheist blog and started posting, but only right before exam weeks, which I could look up online. The person was so obsessed with tearing and ripping at God and elevating themselves that they couldn't see how it had gained control over them; they couldn't let it go lest their own glory be diminshed. They almost flunked out that semester.

Hedonists live for pleasure, whether it is glory for themselves, or some other kind of pleasure. Sin starts out promising to satisfy, but it never does. It takes more and more and more to reach previous levels of satisfaction, and this is one of the ways that sin conquers. Glory-seeking is sin.

Moral: Never get whipped up before your annual sales cycle!

adam harrison

Amusing story about the college blogger, JT.

I wonder, would you by, say, a car, from someone who also threatened you?

adam harrison

Say, I was wondering how many people are posting under the KCFreethinkers.org sign off.

Some of the messages are Iggy's but textual analysis, composition, grammar and tone reveal that some are not.

Just wondering.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

I came across this by Vern Barnet in KC Star the other day...

Vern Barnet | Religions share a fascination with fire
VERN BARNET FAITH & BELIEFS

I’m teaching a course on world religions at Avila University this term. To initiate study of the prehistoric origins of spiritual practices, I asked the students to form teams, to imagine themselves as cave guys and gals and to list experiences they might have had that would cause them to feel awe and wonder.

Such feelings may have generated early religions, and it is hard to think of any religion today that does not still contain a sense of fascinating or fearful mystery at its core.

FULL STORY> http://www.kansascity.com/644/story/1477239.html
______________________
Lawsuit ends GuideOne Mutual Insurance Co.’s discounts for churchgoers

Back in 2005, a story in The Kansas City Star’s business section reported that GuideOne Mutual Insurance Co. was offering auto and homeowner policies with special discounts for churchgoers.

Earlier this month, the West Des Moines, Iowa, insurer settled a complaint by the Justice Department that its homeowner and renter insurance policies violated the Fair Housing Act by discriminating on the basis of religion

FULL STORY> http://www.kansascity.com/505/story/1477257.html
_____________________
The new movie with "freethinking/atheistic" bend "The Invention of Lying" has the following highlights on "Kansas City Star" site

But then, desperate to pay his rent, unemployed Mark tells a lie. And suddenly he's lying all over the place, sometimes for personal gain, often to make others feel better. And what really makes people feel better is hearing that they are looked after by a Man in the Sky, who promises that if they're good, they'll go to a wonderful place when they die. Pretty soon people are flocking to hear more from Mark on the subject.

Any movie that so blithely equates the basis of Christianity as the world's greatest lie deserves our immediate attention - how bold can you get? However, one must wonder: Why does this town have a church if it doesn't have a God? But maybe we're getting too serious.

FULL STORY> http://www.kansascity.com/412/story/1484269.html

Susan

Just Thinking, are you saying that you purposely posted on the Atheist student's blog ONLY before exam weeks, for the sole purpose of getting this person so wrapped up in debates with you so that s/he wouldn't study enough, and might do poorly enough on exams to flunk out of school? Just as you combine various things you learn about people like Cole to form a picture in your mind of what you think their characters are like (though in Cole's case you are dead wrong) -- so I am finding that these little tidbits you share are coming together in my mind and creating an image of YOUR character (I only hope I'm as wrong about you as you are about Cole :))
_________________________________________________
In Dennett's "Breaking the Spell," I am now reading the chapter titled "Towared a Buyer's Guide to Religions." This has me thinking about Bill's recent blog post comparing leaving one congregation for another, to divorce. And I think Bill has a point, up to a point.

As I'm reading "Breaking the Spell," I'm thinking about the marriage-analogy, and how it's best if you base your decision to marry on more than just falling in love and hastily-deciding "This is the one." In a similar way, we should think with our minds as well as our hearts when deciding which congregation is "the one" for us to invest our lives in and raise our families in.

And, while I believe marriage is a covenant with the other person and with God, and not "just a legal contract" -- I also think that sometimes people have to reevaluate and get out of certain situations. I keep hearing people saying about their churches, "I didn't leave the church, the church left me." And some marriages, and some churches, are not compatible with life and health. (Continued)

Susan

(Continued) Consider, for instance, a girl who grows up in a home where her father hits and/or verbally abuses her mother, and is very controlling of the whole family. And let's say this family is part of a faith community where everyone has similar views about male headship being a dominance sort of thing, such that this becomes her model for what a "real man" is like, as well as for how a man behaves when he really loves and cares about his wife and children.

So, when she goes through puberty and starts having sexual attractions, she tends to be drawn toward men who fit this model, and she marries one of them. Well, as she is growing and learning more about the world around her, she gradually becomes aware that real love isn't about control, and that there are many "real men" who don't need to dominate. And she keeps growing, and eventually reaches a ceiling and realizes her growth toward health is being seriously-stunted by remaining in this controlling marriage. She may also be realizing the toll the marriage is taking on her children's emotional health and development.

So she starts trying to explain what she's learning to her spouse, in the hopes that he'll want to change and stay in the marriage. If he's not willing to change in a way that's conducive to his wife and children being able to grow as people and be healthy -- does the fact that she made vows bind her and her kids to staying anyway, even if it's the (psychological if not physical) death of them?

I'm certainly not in favor of hopping from marriage to marriage, and I'm not in favor of hopping from church to church either. Of course, I just remembered that Bill was comparing church hopping to NO FAULT divorce. I guess no fault divorce is like saying, "My spouse has been faithful and loving all these years -- but I would simply like 'a change.'" That is indeed sad because loving spouses can allow one another the space to grow and change, so it would seem that with a little effort, if all you're looking for is variety and your spouse is supportive of you getting your needs met, you can create more variety within your marriage.

But it's also sad when people judge divorced people as if they were ALL just taking their covenents too lightly. In a similar way, maybe people who change congregations a lot are "church-hoppers" -- but maybe not. Maybe they're making a necessary choice for their own health, and/or the health of their family.

Greg Swartz

Although I have been an atheist most of my life, I have gone to churches from time to time. I have seen a lot of this getting together to talk about differences. The problem with most of it from what I have seen is that they are generally one shot events that the participants then use for years to prove that they are upstanding observant members of their particular faith. Generally, these events are just sham, feel good events with little meaning.

A religious group will invite some black folks to their church and then for years they will use that event to prove that they are not racists. Rarely will white suburbanites be seen in a black church.

Likewise, this event which happened at the Church of the Resurrection involved 50 persons meeting once to discuss differences and similarities among them. That is fine, but what was determined to be their follow up?

More importantly, did they discuss why there are different religions? Did they discuss the possibility that their beliefs exist entirely in their imaginations and that they are all wrong? Did they discuss the possibility that any similarities between them arise from common human needs and biology? Did they discuss the fact that the human brain has the capacity for imagination and delusion but that the really neat thing is that the human brain has the capacity for reason and the ability for sorting out what is real and what is imagined? Did they ask why their god, if real, has not come back in this hour of great need to tell all of humanity what the true faith should be?

Were there secular or atheistic humanists there? Humanism is based on reason, not faith, and is not a religion, but it is world view that needs to be part of the mix.

Greg Swartz

For several years now, I have been leading a group of skeptics that meets every Sunday morning to learn about the various religions of the world. We are currently looking into early Christianity and religions of the Axial Age and in the ancient Mediterranean area. Formerly, we have looked at the New Testament, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam. We meet every Sunday at 10:30 a.m. in room 309 of Haag Hall at UMKC.

I think that the one thing that I have taken away from all of this is that humans have a great capacity for imagination. Societies have come up with some really comprehensive religious myths in trying to explain the various mysteries of the universe. There are evolutionary benefits for having imagination, but we are at a point in our evolution where we do not need supernatural entities to explain these mysteries. It is time for us to discard those myths and begin to deal with reality.

In that regard, I recently stated a Humanist Study Group which will be meeting on most Monday evenings. For more details, check out http://www.meetup.com/kc-humanists/.

I, also, help out on the Voice of Reason which is on KKFI (90.1 FM) every Sunday at 7:00 a.m. If you are interested in discussing the show, we usually have breakfast at about 8:15 a.m. at the Corner Restaurant right after the show.

The events that I organize or moderate are generally planned far in advance and generally open to anyone interested – freethinker or not. I do not use a pseudonym or secret codes. Further details about these things and other free thought events in Kansas City can be found at www.kcfreethought.org.

Just Thinking

No, Adamh, I would not buy a used car from someone who threatens me. And they should expect to lose sales, too, if they act that way.

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

One of the very clear invisible qualities of God is that He does not like sin, and that those who indulge in it, for whatever reason, will not be favored. Bill Clinton had a taste of that while he was in office. God's wrath was much more powerful than his lies. The faithlessness of G.W. Bush and Dick Cheney were not favored by God either, where they wanted people to depend on Cheney's plan of torture and violations of human rights, instead of doing what is right in God's sight and depending on Him in faith. The world has turned on this country because of such dangerous thinking, and they no longer trust us to do the right thing.

God's wrath is revealed against unrighteousness.

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Adam said, “Apparently you are now backtracking in your remark that you now don't care if he was real or not. (Exactly, you don't care...you are beyond rational discussion.)”

I’m not backtracking. You are so funny. You twist it like some slimy attorney. I still don’t believe there is enough evidence to show jesus was a real person. I simply added I don’t care. It means nothing that he might have been some rabbi preaching the word; some kind of half-ass magician. It still proves nothing.

I am beyond rational discussion? You are the one who believes in supernatural heroes. They aren’t real, adam. Comic books, TV shows, movies and past myths are fantasy. Do you believe in superman or super woman?

Adam added, “Don't you get tired of making threats?”

I don’t know what you are talking about. It was a pretty rock. Remember jesus had a big rock outside his tomb. It was no problem for him . Just pray and I’m sure jesus will do something about your paranoia, just another delusion.

Adam can’t stop, “(Cole, don't bellyache about lawsuits...your buddy Dan Barker makes a nice little living out of suing religous groups and you keep bragging about Dover. What goes around comes around, sport!)”

What are you talking about? Are you hearing voices, again. Please share with us, baseball.

Adam is still at it, “Say, I was wondering how many people are posting under the KCFreethinkers.org sign off.
Some of the messages are Iggy's but textual analysis, composition, grammar and tone reveal that some are not.

Columbo is at work. Sherlock Holmes you are not. When you grow up surely you are not going to be a private dick. Continued

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Continued
JT said, “"So what becomes the motive for someone who does not seek the glory of the one who sent them? Interestingly, Jesus answered that very question: "He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him."

Motive? It is fun learning how people think. I know you won’t understand that; you will simply turn it to something ugly. Jesus never wrote anything, if he was a person at all. The fact is: nobody knows what the jesus-god wrote. People are saying what you interpret as jesus.

That’s true JT. Hedonists do live for pleasure. It’s far better than to live for suffering like the jesus religion. You say, “Glory-seeking is sin.”

Well, then jesus and god are sinning. I would include the holy-ghost but it appears his specialty is raping the soul and virgins (Mary for example)
LUKE:
1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Don’t you think it is time to stop believing in ghosts and such?

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

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