The religions of Americans: 10-22-09

For years I have been saying that one of the most important tasks for Americans in the 21st Century is to learn how to live in harmony in a society in which people practice many different religions.

We have a chance to show a violent and divided world how to do that.

To help us, we need many tools, including wise people who are religiously literate and can show us how to do this. But we also need written guides to educate us.

Until 15 years ago, we really did not have an up-to-date, comprehensive guide that describes for us how Americans practice the many world religions found within our borders. That's when the first edition of World Religions in America was published.

Well, much has changed since 1994. And now Westminster John Knox Press (the publishing arm of my Presbyterian denomination) has brought forth a fourth edition of this important book, edited by Jacob Neusner. Every chapter is updated and several new ones have been added to cover the Unification Church, New Thought and women and religion.

This is not just another version of, say, Huston Smith's guides to world religions or the Introduction to World Religions, edited by Christopher Partridge, or World Religions at Your Fingertips, by Michael McDowell and Nathan Robert Brown. All are useful books, but their aim is not to help us understand specifically how Americans practice these faiths.

Again, why is that important? Here's the way Neusner answers that question: "The future of America depends on the answer to the question, How are religions going to relate to one another in this country?" Exactly.

Now, I don't want to suggest that America is on the verge of sectarian violence as Baptists attack Methodists or Buddhists attack Mormons. Not at all. But the truth is, as I have said many times, that ignorance leads to fear and fear eventually can degenerate into violence. How else do you explain the Ku Klux Klan and its followers' belief that they were (and are) being just the right kind of Christians?

In the new book's chapter on Protestantism, the eminent religious scholar Martin E. Marty notes that about 50 percent of Americans are Protestant but he urges Americans of other traditions not to worry because "those. . .Protestants would never be able to form a single team to gang up on you. First of all, they have no reason to be angry with you; most of them have many friends who are not Protestant, and they would not want to hurt their friends. Even more of them would not consider religion the main reason to take sides on anything; race or income would more likely define who is 'in' and who is 'out.'"

Then Marty adds this: "There are two even better protections for the fifty percent of Americans who do not say that Protestantism is their religion. First, American law and custom make holy war difficult to carry out, and also irrelevant. . . .The other reason for protection, one that will help you understand your or your neighbor's Protestantism, is this: Protestants differ very much from one another. It would be hard to get them to agree on everything."

No doubt all true, but as we all know it doesn't take a unified crowd to make followers of minority religions in this country feel unwelcome or uncomfortable. It takes only a few bigots or a few people who act out of ignorance and fear.

Which is why I hope this newly revised book gets a wide readership, including you.

* * *

AT THE CORNHUSKERS' EXPENSE

A University of Nebraska scholar was offering a session yesterday on the similarities between Nebraska football and the old Roman religion. Hmmm. I used to think the "N" on Nebraska football helmets stood for knowledge, but perhaps it stands for gnosticism.

Comments

[Dolores Lear]

J.T. (last night, 9:36)
"Let's be good neighbors to each other. - But neighbors should try to get along without screaming, threatening, throwing punches or ending up in court. Who needs that?"

Who need fighting families, religions, and governments all made up of Unequal Humans? Ever since the Equal Male and Female Clone Humans, started Reproducing UnEqual Genetic and Physical Children, Humans have Not Got Along.

Now Humans have High Tech Science Reproduction, and could begin Cloning the Female from the Male Rib, and Have an Equal Society, but this type that God/Us Humans did is looked down on as Evil.

How much more Evil can Planet Earth get than it is today, with Pollution chocking our Eco System and Killing our Ozone, and with Nuclear Bombs on land and sea. Who need that?

Bill Today:
"I have been saying that one of the most important tasks for Americans in the 21st Century is to learn how to live in harmony in a society in which people practice many different religions."

Why so many Religions for the One GOD, not a Human, that made the Elements that make Life as we Know it. How can Humans, with High Tech Science, Know this GOD, still accept so many God/Us in our Human Image, into so many different Earth Religions?

Including a One God, Multiple Gods, and Many Trinity Religion of Father, Mother, and Son, changed in 300 to Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit (3 'Persons' in one God)?

How can a Holy Spirit be a Person? This has been accepted for 2,000 years! Has anyone ever questioned how a Spirit can be a Person, or, does 'with God anything is possible' explain this?

'Temporal' Defective Body Birth Children's Love and Death? "Who Needs That?"

Are Humans Ready for "Heaven", Alive on High Tech Planets and in Spaceships, with Equal Males and Females with 'Eternal' Equal Selfhood Agape Love? "Who needs That?"

[Will Graham]

Dolores, your anti Christian propaganda about "Unequal Humans" and "DEFECTIVE" Body Birth Children is the stuff of totalitarian dictatorships and Nazi Death Camps.

"Who needs that?"

[Will Graham]

Bill, why joke about violence on the part of "Baptists, Methodists, or Buddists" (which is a backhanded smear on those groups, by the way...why didn't you mention, say, MUSLIMS attacking Jews?) while you ignore the only group that has been making suggesions that people Shut Up and Die right on your own blog.

Are you afraid of them? Do you gain some publicity for yourself by giving them a free pass and free advertising?

There are people who would like to know.

[adam harrison]

Dawkins, The Greatest Show on Earth, and historical knowledge...

http://voxday.blogspot.com/

[Just Thinking]

1 Peter 2
"For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king."

Part of getting along starts with asking, "What is the right thing to do?" That is the path toward God. It's so easy to lose sight of that question and instead begin to ask, "How can I get my way and please myself?" And that's where sin begins, both sin against others and sin against God.

Did those in the KKK ask, "What is the right thing to do?" or were they acting out in hateful selfishness?

"What would Jesus do?" is an arrogant question that should be replaced with "What would Jesus have to say about what I am doing?" There is a difference in attitude. One promotes pleasing ourselves, and the other promotes pleasing God, by finding what He wants us to do.

[Just Thinking]

Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline."

Those in the KKK do not fear God or they would not act as they do. People who do not fear God, who do not fear the law, who do not fear authority of any kind, often come to the point of having the 'fear of God' put into them the hard way. Why? People who ask, "How can I get my way and please myself?" often push the line more and more until they've cross the line. Then it's too late. That's why wisdom begins with a HEALTHY fear/respect of authority/God. Wisdom ends with understanding that God's wisdom is the answer to "What is the right thing to do?"

Proverbs warns that calamity often follows fearless pursuit of selfish, hateful happiness. Then it's too late to escape consequences.

Proverbs 1
If you had responded to my rebuke,
I would have poured out my heart to you
and made my thoughts known to you.

But since you rejected me when I called
and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,

since you ignored all my advice
and would not accept my rebuke,

I in turn will laugh at your disaster;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you-

when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.

Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me.

Since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the LORD,

since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,

they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

Bill wrote>>>>>>>>>>>>"The future of America depends on the answer to the question, How are religions going to relate to one another in this country?" Exactly.

I think the future of Americ depends on "rationality", "science", and "moving ahead" from prejudices and absoltuley "obsolete" fables of religions which are geared to "describing" the world in terms of "bronze age" mythologies of a "tribe in a middle eastern desert" which are invariably tied up to religion and opposition to religion in one way or another.

Religion is in my mind kind of a "shell/body" - like different makes of cars that serve the same function - get you from point A to point B. For some reason we don't argue if someone has a Honda vs. Chevy, only if you have a gas guzzling Hummer there will be some bitching, but if you drive a hybrid, everyone thinks you are OK or indifferent.

Religion is different, it is political, it is personal, Christianity in particular is "salvation through salivation", "serving god" (what a stupid idea, why would you need to serve an omnipotent being, doesn't he have anything else to masturbate on?), it is invasive, it is divisive - to people of other faiths and no faith.

Religion and Faith are different. Faith and god are different (if she is there). Therefore, religous people need to understand that the best place for them with their religious believes in public is under a rock - we would never be able to agree on the basis of "crazy religion" - hell, Christians cannot even agree on it themselves with 33,000+ denominations. Therefore, particularly, crazy Christian History Deniers should keep their faith to themselves under a rock and nurture it there - maybe the dog of Xianity will give birth to a cat of reason? (pun at Xian creationists and evolution deniers :O)

(Continued)

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

(Continued)

Religous people's minds can be changed quite dramatically in a very short period of time with proper "psychological" and "factual" conditioning - see below.

My Bloody Gawd! - "Don't knows" lost virtually 100% of the group and agreed that the arguments for Catholic Church to be a good force in the world are BS. Those who supported the motion lost almost 50% of the vote. These numbers are quite staggering. People coming into the debate "already" had their minds set up and the "huge" swing in opinion towards "Catholic Church is BS and not a good force in the world" is stagerring
_______________________
Intelligence Squared debate: Catholics humiliated by Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry

I have just witnessed a rout – tonight’s Intelligence Squared debate. It considered the motion “The Catholic Church is a force for good in the world”. Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry, opposing the motion, comprehensively trounced Archbishop Onaiyekan (of Abuja, Nigeria) and Ann Widdecombe, who spoke for it. The archbishop in particular was hopeless.

The voting gives a good idea of how it went. Before the debate, for the motion: 678. Against: 1102. Don’t know: 346. This is how it changed after the debate. For: 268. Against: 1876. Don’t know: 34. In other words, after hearing the speakers, the number of people in the audience who opposed the motion increased by 774.

http://richarddawkins.net/article,4477,Intelligence-Squared-debate-Catholics-humiliated-by-Christopher-Hitchens-and-Stephen-Fry-,Andrew-M-Brown---Telegraphacouk

[memberofKCFreeThinkers.org]

Jt, you make me laugh. Quoting words out of an ancient text written by people doesn’t prove god or some kind of king. Is the real world just too much for you?

JT copies, “1 Peter 2
"For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king."

You are so silly. Promote education and science. This will move us ahead. Trying to understand a hodge-podge of bronze-age pieces of paper gets us nowhere, except backward thinking….

Babble on and make a lawsuit out of that. You act as badly as the kids on this blog;

I am a hedonist. I seek pleasure. Jt, I do not seek hatred. Perhaps you should get over yourself and learn what people say, not twist it to something else.

Susan, you might be interested in this:

All six parts are good. Enjoy.
The Science Network - Daniel Dennett Interview (Part 1/6)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNTvNfMAAgg&feature=related

Peace For the Sake of Newspapers Cole

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

Christian History Denier Just Thinking wrote>>>>>>.
But since you rejected me when I called
and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,
since you ignored all my advice
and would not accept my rebuke,
I in turn will laugh at your disaster;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you...

Since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the LORD,
since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,
they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.

Dear Christian History Denier,

Thank you for singing praises to the Flying Spaghetti Monster and his only Messiah Hannibal Lector. I could not have said this better about them - you see, even you sinful Christians "know" that FSM and HL are part of your life and through your "false idols" you worship the only true creators of the Universe. You see, you do have the right idea about the "creator" - just the wrong kind of creator. The Bible was written by people who were "inspired" by false gods and could not see FSM and HL for the fog of deceptions that they (the humans) were espousing.

If only you could undertand and open up your heart to FSM and your cranial cavity to Hannibal Lector to clone you a new brain - you'd be a better human being. Is it too much to ask?

If it is, then I recommend that a good place to start would be under a rock, go into hiding.

Occasionally, it is rather amusing to get your Biblical quotes. I don't know why you abandoned your "quantum mechanical" arguments for god of the gaps?

I think you and the Master Debater and Glorious Leader James Christensen should get together and talk? Maybe you can come to the Sunday 7 p.m. chat/continuation of the discussion of the Dawkins Book "The Greatest Show on Earth: Evidence for Evolution" at Borders coffee house on 91st and Metcalf in Overland Park? You will make a lovely couple!

[Just Thinking]

KCFreeThinkers.org,

Take a close look at how *you* get along with others. You pride yourself on rationality, but your arguments are purely emotional.

For example, you use phrases such as "bronze age mythologies" and "obsolete fables" and "moving ahead" and expect somehow that those phrases have any meaning. They don't, except as emotionally charged and irrational statements. Truth is Truth, KCFreeThinkers.org, and it will remain Truth. That's why your use of such phrases can be seen to have no content.

Comparing people to cars is analogy that is way too simplistic.

"salvation through salivation" is another phrase that has no content, but shows only anger and upset. And then you throw in word "masturbate" to further prove your point? Have you proved some point with logic? NOOOOO. You have proved something else, though.

"it is invasive, it is divisive" There's finally some truth. Asking to people to choose between "What is the right thing to do?" and "What can I do to please myself and get my way?" is DEFINITELY a divisive question. And it will inevitably seem invasive to those who ask base their lives in asking the *wrong* question. Yes, there's Truth in that. Jesus affirmed that Truth. Heaven and Hell is divisive in the same way.

"religous people need to understand that the best place for them with their religious believes in public is under a rock" Again, no rational content, just emotional attack.

"maybe the dog of Xianity will give birth to a cat of reason" Again, no rational content, just emotional reaction.

For someone who prides themselves on logic as you do, you consistently fail in that department. You can't support your positions with logic, and *you* are the one attacking others because of *your* unsupported faith. Ironic, isn't it?

[adam harrison]

Hugh Hewitt has an interesting interview with Richard Dawkins.

Dawkins informs us that the "Big Bang" is not a complex procees..."Its a simple process."

Lots more:

http://www.hughhewitt.com/transcripts.aspx?id=77fe9a0d-d15d-4f33-af90-d4685976f8e0

[Just Thinking]

Cole,

Your words contradict themselves.

"Jt, you make me laugh. Quoting words out of an ancient text written by people doesn’t prove god or some kind of king. Is the real world just too much for you?"
....
"Jt, I do not seek hatred. Perhaps you should get over yourself and learn what people say, not twist it to something else."

I think your words DO promote hatred. I think you ARE seeking hatred. I think that is a clear, rational, logical, and inescapable conclusion. Do you not see it? Because I'm sure that others here do.
-----------------
By the way, Cole, isn't it interesting that the wisdom in the Bible for living is still as valid today as it ever was? Proverbs is interesting that way. It talks about those who join together to attack people who have done nothing to them, and the misery they cause their own soul. It deals with respect for others, and for authority.

There is nothing new under the sun, including promoting hatred of others. That's why the Bible is still in print. It deals with the complex topic of human behavior, sin, and "What is the right thing to do?" Ancient wisdom that remains valid, or it would have gone out of print, like the Science books of only a few hundred years ago have all gone out of print because they are no longer valid. Does that tell you anything about Truth?

[adam harrison]

Cole wants to promote education and science; KCF wants Believers "under a rock".

That sounds like a threat to me.

So, how does that promote education and science? Of course, it doesn't, and that is not REAL intention is it Cole?

Your are doing nothing to promote education and science, you are simply spewing anti religious propaganda under the guise of SCIENTISM and REDUCTIONISM. (Of course, you are not educated enough yourself to know what they means, but you could look it up on Wikipedia if nothing else.)

[adam harrison]

Cole says in his 10:38 post that we should "learn what people say".

We do Cole. We do.

You keep repeating your hateful statements.

We do not want people like you in positons of power.

[Dolores Lear]

Bill:
" - as I have said many times, that ignorance leads to fear and fear eventually can degenerate into violence. How else do you explain the Ku Klux Klan and its followers' belief that they were (and are) being just the right kind of Christians?"

What 'is' Being Just the Right Kind of Christians?
Is the Majority Christian USA, the Right Kind of Christians, with their High Tech Pollution, and Nuclear Bombs on land and sea?

Does Killing our Home Planet, have any thing to do with Loving God/Us, and Taking Care of the Life they started on Earth?

We Know the Catholic Christian Religion was Man-Made, and all the Other Christian Divisions Since.

What is a Christian? A Follower of Jesus' Teachings of Celibate Males and Sharing the Earth's Resources Equally? Do Christians Know this is what the New Testament Teaches about Jesus?

Do Protestant Christians follow the Roman Catholic Man-Made Jesus as God, 300 years after Jesus went up into Space, Alive, with the God/Us, the 'Fathers/Mothers' of Life on Earth?

Who is God/Us in Genesis? Humans in our Image? Or a Spirit that walks and talks with the Humans they Reproduced 'Supernaturally' without Body Birth?

Where did these ideas come from? The Old and New Testaments written by Humans, and Trinity God Myths, written by Humans?

Bill:
"as we all know it doesn't take a unified crowd to make followers of minority religions in this country feel unwelcome or uncomfortable. It takes only a few bigots or a few people who act out of ignorance and fear."

So what do Humans do now? Kill our Home Planet, and Eco System, with a Nuclear War, for Jesus' Sake? Why?

Are Man-Made Religions, really Worth the Death of our Home Planet By Human Neglect, while worshiping Man-Made Gods?

[Susan]

Bill, I can actually see how the KKK might say they are more Biblical Christians than everyone else -- because in early Biblical times, people's focus was primarily on acting for the good of their particular group. "All's fair in love and war" kind of mentality (but maybe just leave out the love part).

Adam, the debate you linked to between Richard Dawkins and somebody else -- I thought Dawkins's challenger was really making a stretch when he seemed to be saying that not believing in the miracles of Jesus, was comparable to not believing that Latin was ever a spoken language. I believe in the miracles of Jesus: I believe by faith, because of how God has touched my life and communicated with me.

But I don't believe there's historical evidence that the mircacles ever happened -- I just believe that they happened. I would say that not believing the Latin language was ever spoken, could be compared to not believing in Jesus's existence and His Crucifixion, or not believing in the historical reality of the Christian Church. But I see my faith in Jesus's Resurrection and His many other miracles -- as faith. Whereas it takes no faith for me to believe Jesus existed, or to believe Latin was once a spoken language.

Just Thinking and Cole, I actually think you guys have a similar moral code -- if you can get past titles like "hedonist." I think JT gets tripped up when he hears Cole calling himself a pleasure seeker, because he sees this as a person who just follows his physical urges without regard for the feelings of others. Cole, I don't think JT realizes that pleasure wouldn't be pleasure for you, if it resulted in suffering for others. Maybe you can clue him in on your definition of "hedonist." And thanks for the link, I'll try to watch it later.

[adam harrison]

Is Christianity Good For the World?

A debate between Christopher Hitchens and Douglas Wilson:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/mayweb-only/119-12.0.html

[Susan]

Cole, I just watched and enjoyed the Daniel Dennett interview.

What an interesting idea, that we have souls that are made up of lots of tiny robots (neurons)!

I agree with Dennett about the development of morality -- that it starts out with basic human feelings like love, compassion, and the desire to avoid pain.

I think we see a very human progression of morality in the Bible. I.e., as I've said before, the sinfulness of rape used to be the way that it damaged another man's property. Every man wanted to be assured that his children were really his -- and every father wanted the full bridal payment for his virgin daughter.

This morality was based on males realizing that other males wanted the same things they wanted -- and men started realizing that if it was okay for them to tamper with other men's property, then what was to stop other men from tampering with THEIRS? This code of respect for other males' property was therefore a necessary basis for everyone to get along, and getting along was necessary for building up the best possible military force to protect your own tribe from other tribes.

Growth in morality has resulted in the realization that women and children are people, too. This is one big reason why I see morality as pretty synonamous with empathy. The more a person recognizes the humanity and feelings of those most different from them, the more morally upright they are in all their dealings with others.

We humans still see rape as an awful thing -- only now this reasoning is based on how it affects the women and children who are being violated. Similarly, adultery is still seen as wrong for both men and women -- only now it's because the adulterer is breaking his or her covenant with the spouse, and has little to do with property-rights. Though maybe it still has more than a little to do with property-rights, since there is that saying about one man "poaching" on another man's "preserves."

[Red Biddy]

Rather than just study the world's religions from a purely American perspective, The World's Religions by Ninian Smart has a more global view than I imagine the Neusner edition of "World Religions in America" has - although it does sound like an interesting read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninian_Smart

America has become the most ostensibly religious country in the world but the religions as practiced here bear little resemblance to the origins or the cultures from whence they came ! Must be something to do with the seperation of church and state. Religion have just gone wild here and even grown some new sects like Mormonism and the Jehovah's witnesses.

I think this is happening in other Western Countries too. I was listening to an English Anglican priest on BBC news last night who was moaning about the music being played at funerals these days. Apparently Frank Sinatra's My Way is very popular at British funeral's these days....the poor guy said that he felt his presence at these events was becoming increasingly irrelevant !

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

Do you think that God would send you to hell for "thought crimes?"

If you are a Republican and "anti gay" you will love the last ditch efforts Republicans have made to oppose the "hate bill" legislation that just been passed attached to a military bill. Now is it "federal crime" to perpetrate a crime of hate against people based on their sexual orientation.

Republicans called it "thought crime" bill! - what a perverted logic! You can "hate gays" in your brain all you want and even say that - you just cannot expect the federal governemnt stand by when rights of gays are being violated on federal level, not just state level with local laws being applied.

I think this is a great piece of legislature. In some jurisdictions (varies by county, city and township) there are already housing laws that prevent discrimination against gays, soon I'd assume FHA will change their housing guidelines as part of the federal housing system.

The law doesn't prohibit Christian History Deniers from "hating" gays and using their perverted and convoluted theology for it but clearly prohibits "acting" in a hateful manner.

Republicans and Crazy Christian Deniers - here is one rock you gotta admit you have to crawl under and shut up uder. Your crazy idea is about to die out in public slowly but surely. This is all that is needed.
__________________
To Christian History Deniers (Just Thinking in particular :o) - hope to hear more "god of the gaps" comments using cosmological mental twisting from you followed up by Biblical Quotes.

'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, Atheists Alliance International Convention, 2009

http://richarddawkins.net/article,4490,A-Universe-From-Nothing-by-Lawrence-Krauss-AAI-2009,Lawrence-Krauss-AAI-RDFRS-Josh-Timonen

[Dolores Lear]

Atheists do not worship God, like Religious Humans. But, they Do Kill Each Other and Our Home Planet, like Religious Humans. Why are Humans Living this Killing Lifestyle, handed down by Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth?

Will:
"Dolores, your anti Christian propaganda about "Unequal Humans" and "DEFECTIVE" Body Birth Children is the stuff of totalitarian dictatorships and Nazi Death Camps." -

"Bill, why joke about violence on the part of "Baptists, Methodists, or Buddhists" (which is a backhanded smear on those groups, by the way...why didn't you mention, say, MUSLIMS attacking Jews?)"

JT:
"Part of getting along starts with asking, "What is the right thing to do?" That is the path toward God." -
"There is a difference in attitude. One promotes pleasing ourselves, and the other promotes pleasing God, by finding what He wants us to do." -
"Proverbs warns that calamity often follows fearless pursuit of selfish, hateful happiness. Then it's too late to escape consequences."

The Consequences of the Past 100 years, Humans have regained High Tech Science, and made Nuclear Bombs. Where are the Morals of God?

Susan's Post at 2:15 PM, gives many reasons why Humans should not Reproduce by Body Birth. It leads to all types of Loss of Morals.

Susan:
"We humans still see rape as an awful thing -- only now this reasoning is based on how it affects the women and children who are being violated. Similarly, adultery is still seen as wrong for both men and women -- only now it's because the adulterer is breaking his or her covenant with the spouse, and has little to do with property-rights."

The Purebred Perfect Human Females made from the Male Rib in Genesis, lost their Innocence of Asexual Clone Morals, when they Reproduced Children. Now Fathers and Daughters, and Mothers and Sons Reproduce.

What are Morals today, for 7 Billion Humans, Reproduced from the Sexual Pleasure Revolution of the past 100 years?

[Chuck Lunney]

Apparently, I can dial a phone and not realize it! I'd tried calling Jim Christensen several times over the last couple days to invite him to Borders on Sunday, but each time it would go straight to voicemail (and inform me that that his "voice mailbox is full. Please try again later"). Last night about 11:00, I was getting ready for bed and went to put my phone on my dresser (so the dog wouldn't eat it), but it slipped and started to fall. I lunged and grabbed it, but I must have hit the "Call" button by accident. I quickly cancelled the call, but realized the last number I'd dialed yesterday was to Jim -- so that's who's number was called.

About 30 seconds later, my phone rang -- it was Jim. Luckily, he wasn't asleep, but driving somewhere, so I didn't wake him up. I apologized for the late hour and explained the mistake, but then added in the invitation to meet this weekend. He sounded surprised about it, as if no one had told him about it. He said he'd look at the comments here today if he got the chance, and see if he could make it to Borders. He asked me to call him today, when he wasn't trying to drive and I wasn't heading to bed.

So, once again -- Come to Borders (91st and Metcalf) Sunday evening from 7:00 - 9:00 to discuss Dawkins' latest book, The Greatest Show on Earth (and anything else that comes up in conversation). The offer to buy the first cup of coffee for any of the theists is still on the table -- Adam, Will, JT, Trapblock, etc. I've bought Jim a couple rounds, and I'm willing to spring for yours, too. All you've got to do is show up.

[Red Biddy]

continued.....
I do agree with Bill though that it only takes a few bigots and ignorant people to make others. who have differing beliefs, not just uncomfortable but really threatened. These recent political rallies where people showed up with guns are an indication of how divided this country is, although I don't think it is just religious belief in the form of right wing fundamentalism doing it.

Here's the last paragraph of Ninian Smart's book "The World's Religions" which is a very good summary of where we are at, globally.
"So long as humans are brought up in different paths, so will they see the world differently, and for each path some things will seem natural and right and others not. But the paths cross. We can benefit from that. Social justice, which Marxists struggle for; human freedom, for which liberals emphasize, love of God and fellow humans, which Christianity preaches, brotherhood, which Islam promotes, calm and mysticism, which go with Buddhism, devotion and pluralism, which Hinduism points to, harmony with nature, which Taosim commends, the cultivation of peronal behaviour which is a lesson from Confucianism, holism in life, which we find in Africa; finding meaning through suffering, which Judaism has had to emphasize; the importance of inner sincerity, which we find in the Sikhs; these and many other spiritual and moral values are not of course mutually incompatible.
In that respect we may not achieve a global religion, we may achieve a global civilization in which values from the great traditions are woven together in a glittering net. Perhaps it will turn out like the jewel net of Indra, of which Hua-yen so eloquently speaks; each stone reflecting each other.

[Susan]

Adam, wouldn't it make sense that the Big Bang was probably a simple process and not a complex one? I mean, since life itself started out very simply, as one-celled organisms, and gradually progessed to the wonderfully complex beings and processes that we now have, and ARE, today?

I personally don't know FOR SURE that the Big Bang was simple and not complex -- just saying that it seems like this could logically be the case.

By the way, I am just wondering if you accept evolutionary theory?