Faithful words a-changing: 10-13-09
A question of justice: 10-15-09

The pursuit of happiness: 10-14-09

Happiness

 

I have often thought that America first got into trouble when the words "pursuit of happiness" entered our national conscience in the Declaration of Independence.

That's because the hard truth is that happiness is not something we can intentionally pursue with any success. Rather, it is the byproduct of our attitudes and actions and accomplishments.

As the current interim pastor of my church said in a recent sermon, happiness comes in the back door if it comes in at all. I'm paraphrasing him here, but the pursuit of happiness is a fool's game.

Still, you find all kinds of people pursuing happiness and writing about why Americans are either happy or unhappy. A good recent example is this essay in, of all places, the online Playboy Forum. Before you go there, please know that the site has a few suggestive photos in the ads but nothing that reaches the level of pornography, at least in my view.

It has long seemed to me that Playboy magazine itself was started with the bad idea that it is possible for virile young men to pursue happiness by pursuing beautiful young women. That idea is just about as wrongheaded as it's possible to get about both happiness and relationships.

But in this essay on happiness, which I'm inviting you to read today, I don't find much acknowledgement that happiness is not the true goal of life. Oh, we all want happiness, and, as I say, it's a wonderful byproduct. But my own faith tradition teaches me not that we are here on earth to pursue happiness but, rather, to love others, love and enjoy God and to serve others in need.

Once you figure that out and begin to try to live that way, a lot of things that otherwise seem to be problems and barriers in life take care of themselves. Heck, you can even wind up happy.

* * *

HE CONVERTED TO HATRED

Yes, yes, this radical antisemite's Internet posting asking that God kill the Jews may well be protected by the Constitution, but my question has more to do with how this man, born a Jew, got so wildly and destructively off track. What attracted him to this twisted version of Islam and what drove him to hate his own relatives?

* * *

P.S.: You have an opportunity to hear some fabulous sacred music the evening of Thursday, Nov. 5, at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in downtown Kansas City. A "Requiem of Peace" by Mario Pearson will be have its world premier at 7 p.m. that day. This is another in a series of joint services done by the Catholic cathedral and the neighboring Episcopal Cathedral, Grace & Holy Trinity.

Comments

Will Graham

Bill, the rise of anti semitism is not suprising; the New Atheists have made repeated anti semitic remarks. Dawkins talks about the "Notorious Jewish Lobby"; Harris says the Jews have themselves to blame for not assimiliting properly, (Dawkins makes similar remarks); Hitchens says that if only they had been wiped out at the battle commemorated by Hannukah "We could have been spared the whole thing".

And of course the repeated hatefully misrepresentative remarks made about the Old Testament (written by Jews) on this blog are another example.

Will Graham

My favorite atheism poster, which sums up atheim's attitude toward others, and provides a good working definition. LOL!

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/images/Parchment%20and%20Pen/MichaelPatton/atheism.jpg

Dolores Lear

Susan: (last night 7:51PM)
"BUT, it still seems highly possible that before God separated the heavens from the earth, creating the firmament, the light from sun, moon, and stars might not have been visible from Earth as it is now."

Genesis 1:2a. KJV. "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Earth was a Planet like Venus with a Soupy Water Atmosphere. The Sun cannot penetrate to the surface of Venus. Venus could be Colonized like Earth was, 'in the beginning'.

Genesis 1:6,7. "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament,.."

Genesis 1:10. "And God called the dry land Earth: and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas:.."

The Firmament/Atmosphere was made from our Soupy Water, as the water elements were separated above and below the atmosphere.

The Waters Above the Atmosphere was ?. (Ice Canopy?) The Waters below made the sea. (Pacific Ocean)

Genesis 1:11. Grass, trees, herbs, etc., were added on Day 3.

Genesis 1:14a. "And God said, Let there be lights in the Firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night;"

Genesis 1:16,17,19."And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth." Day 4.

Continue.

Dolores Lear

Continued.

The Sun and Moon were not made on Day 4.

The Sun light and Moon light could not reach the Earth's land area, until after Day 4 of clearing the soupy atmosphere.

God/Us added the fish, fowl, on Day 5.

Genesis 1:24. On Day 6, Animals were added, and then Humans were Reproduced by High Tech Cloning.

Genesis 1:26, "And God said. Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over..." - So God created man in his own image, in he image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The Female from the Male Rib.

This is the High Tech Science Blue Print on how to Colonize a Planet, with a Soupy Atmosphere like Venus. It is impossible to Colonize Mars, without a Soupy Water Atmosphere like Earth had, and Venus has.

With our High Tech Science we can Prove Earth was Colonized. But where does Evolution come in?

Is it possible that when the Universe Elements First Came into 'Being', that the Elements on a water based planet did Evolve up to High Tech Humans?

And these Humans in our Image Colonize Planets like Earth, for another Planetary Outpost, or to get more Resources for their Planet?

Humans with our High Tech today, can only project what happened on Earth in the Beginning. Planets can be Colonized, but how did Life as we Know it Begin in the Universes, that GOD made with Atoms and the ElectroMagnetic Force.

How did GOD make these Elements, that our High Tech Science Ancestors God/Us used to Colonize Life on Earth?

Eternal Physical Life is for Ever Living Humans, with High Tech Science on Planets and in Spaceships, can be Proved today with our High Tech Science.

Dolores Lear

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
-- "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Religious or Atheist Humans, should institute a new Government when the Citizens Elected to Running the Government, make Weapons of Destruction, Toxic Pollution and Nuclear Bombs.

Why are Religious Human and Atheist Citizens, Killers in all Governments on the Planet? Protesters of Killing are looked down on, and not considered Patriotic. If a Person is not Willing to Kill for their Government in War, in the USA, they go to Prison. All Governments have Protesters Citizens and Punishments.

Why does the Planet have so many Divisions of the Human Race? Why not have One Planetary Government with Equality for All GODs Resources, instead of a Monetary Price on What God/Us gave to the Humans Free, like the rest of the Species, 'in the beginning'?

Humans move in Mysterious Ways, their Lifestyle to perform. When did Peace Clone Humans God/Us Reproduced, become Killer Human Mates? At the Original Sin of the Clone Helpmeets, to Reproduce Children, and Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth?

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Bill Tammeus wrote>>>>>>>>I'm paraphrasing him here, but the pursuit of happiness is a fool's game.

Bill, you are a fool yourself if you don't realize that "pursuit" of happiness is a "process/action" that puts you in motion to attain happiness.

Happiness per se is also a misnomer in my opinion, it's like trying to understand the crazy Christian "absolute truth" or "understand" all the Universe and how it works - never going to happen though we'll have more and more knowledge

There is going to be always something new to learn before this particular Solar system dies out in firey death in 4.5-5 bln years from now when the Sun expands or universe (at least what we know now) disintegrates into another form of mass/energy.

Total happiness is a crazy notion, it is subjective to each individual, so it is just degrees of happiness - kind of like degrees/weeks of pregnancy.

The same goes for "absolute truth" - the religious people love to quote this subjective notion too.

Chuck Lunney

Once again, Will - why are you claiming that these type of images represent atheists? This one, like the AIG lie, is from a THEIST trying to mock and slander what atheists are.

The only one you guys have linked to that is actually by an atheist group is the FFRF's "Imagine No Religion" billboard. Please explain how asking someone to "imagine" something is threatening, offensive or insulting? If I ask you to "Imagine no rainbows", are you going to get all aggravated and angry because you want to find that pot o' gold at the end of one?

Each time you link to another poster or billboard that is from a theist mocking or wrongly portraying atheists, you show how little you actually understand anything about civility, religion, and the English language. I didn't ask for theist strawman attacks on atheism, I said an offensive or attacking ad by ATHEISTS themselves. So far, you've failed (miserably and consistently) to do so.

It's no wonder Jim has little respect for you guys. He humors you because one of you is related to him, but he certainly doesn't care what you think. Go ahead and run to Jim and whine about being "attacked" and "threatened". Let him email me directly at chuck.lunney@yahoo.com

I also gave him the link to my blog (www.amhrasscuaine.blogspot.com) to read, but I've not seen any comments from him. Maybe he lost the paper it was written on. You seem at least semi-capable of navigating a computer -- perhaps you could show him?

Dolores Lear

Bill's Referral:
http://www.playboy.com/articles/forum-why-are-we-unhappy-curtis-white-092009/index.html

"One of the great illusions of the developed West is the assumption that human slavery is a thing of the past. If you understand that slavery means more than a chain around your neck, that it means having to make the force of your will work for the benefit of the will of others, then it’s not hard to see how we Americans might be one great slave culture"

The Whole Planet is one slave culture. A few dominant Body Birth Humans took over Owing the Resources of the Planet, and Governments and Religions were formed, and the rest of the Humans, are slaves to make the Owners of GODs Planet, Rich off of GODs Free Resources to All Species.

We are up to Billionaires. And the Resources are getting scarce. as they are tied up in nonLiving items, such as Church buildings, Mansions, Personal Jewels, etc., Big Bank Accounts, Nuclear Bombs and all types of Munitions and Military Bases.

None of this is necessary for Equality of GODs Resources for All Life on Earth. The Unequal Human Materialistic and Capitalistic 'Getting' Lifestyle, results in Killing Each Other, Killing all Life Species, and Killing Our Eco System and Ozone Canopy with Toxic Pollution.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Mark+8%3A36+in+Bible&FORM=SOLTDF&pc=SOLTDF&src=IE-SearchBox

Why is there Human Profit from GODs Free Resources?

There is a Physical High Tech Purebred Human Clone Species, that does have Eternal Peace Physical High Tech Birth Lifestyle After Birth, on Earths and in Spaceships, as it was 'in the beginning' of Life on Earth, with Our God/Us Equal High Tech Clone Human Ancestors, in our Human Image, in Genesis.

trapblock

Our Lords call to us to holiness is the call to happiness.

Just Thinking

PreJudice. The word suggests its meaning: you pre-judge somehow before knowing any facts. You pre-judge based on inclusion in a particular group. You pre-judge based on the color of skin. You pre-judge based on race or religion. Pre-judice.

Racial profiling is a type of pre-judging. Someone who deserves to have the benefit of the doubt, like any other person, is not given that benefit of the doubt simply because they are of a certain race. Mark Twain used say "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." Using statistics in this way is wrong, and here's why: I can concoct any group that I want, mentally lump everyone in the group together, and then I will eventually attribute bad traits of the majority to each and every person in the group. Innocent people become responsible for the bad actions of others in some imaginary group. That's wrong. That's pre-judging. It violates God's JUSTICE.

Of course, voluntary membership in a group can be grounds for pre-judging. If you're in the KKK, then I'd have something to say about that. Pre-judging in that case is not prejudice at all. It's fact. Those who are atheists have one thing in common, and only one thing in common: they disbelieve in God. That's it. There are good atheists, bad atheists, criminal atheists, and there's KCFreeThinkers.org. I judge KCFreeThinkers.org by their actions only. I refer to their words and deeds in judging them. KCFreeThinkers.org is clearly prejudiced against Christians, as is evident in their writings.

Each person is their own person. They should rightfully be judged by their own actions. Some Christians supported slavery, and their actions were evil. Others did not. Some Christians supported Hitler, and their actions were evil. Others did not. Some Christians bash people who do them no harm. Others do not.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Cristian History Denier Just Thinking wrote>>>>>>>There are good atheists, bad atheists, criminal atheists, and there's KCFreeThinkers.org. I judge KCFreeThinkers.org by their actions only. I refer to their words and deeds in judging them. KCFreeThinkers.org is clearly prejudiced against Christians, as is evident in their writings.

I am also prejudiced against pagans, "birthers", "tea partiers", Shakers, 911 and landing on the Moon conspiritors, alchemist, Druids, spiritualists, Voodoo worshippers, tarot card and palm readers, witches, astrologers, meduiums, Chinese fortune cookies, Judaism (but I love Jews :o), Muslims, Scientologists, Budhists, Hindus and their billion gods, also against tatoos, metal spikes in noses and slavery endorsed in the Bible.

I just draw the line when the government tells me what to do and what form of irrationality to adhere to :o)

But most importantly I am prejudiced against "irrationality". When these other groups start pushing their "irrationality" like Crazy Christian History Deniers I'll start bashing them too.

For now I am happy to bash crazy Christians - their brains taste great! Yum, Yum, Yum...

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Twain's Eden
written by Lori Lee Triplett and Jeff McLaughlin
directed by Lori Lee Triplett

October 22, 23, & 24, 2009
7:00 p.m.

Based on the Diaries of Adam and Eve by Mark Twain, this two act comedy examines Adam and Eve from the perspective of Samuel Clemens and his wife. The audience watches the comedic pitfalls of a relationship as Adam and Eve meet, come together, realize the fall, and then grow old together.

Ticket prices:
Thursday Special: Buy one ticket at $12.50, get one free!

Friday & Saturday shows: $12.50 each
Groups of 4 or more $10 each

Large groups of 20 or more $5 each
(contact the Imago Dei Office for large group information.
lori@imagodeiarts.org or 913-233-0266)

Just Thinking

Prejudice through group inclusion is an evil game. You can see why some who play those games continually add to the list of the people that they hate. People who do not oppose them. People whom they've never met.

Such seeds of hatred through pre-judging blossomed into the Holocaust in Germany, too. Hitler made each Jew responsible for everything that any Jew had ever done that he did not like. Soon Hitler had created a Goliath that he had to defeat. That's how Hitler's thinking finally evolved to the point where he would write that Jews were so evil that anything Germans could do to rid themselves of Jews would be justified. Group inclusion makes *you* responsible for everything wrong ever done by anyone in an arbitrary group of the hater's choosing.

You can see how those seeds of hatred have turned 'bashing' into killing. The seeds of anger and hatred continue to grow each time anyone in their hatred groups does anything that they consider wrong. All of it gets attributed to each and every member of the group.

The only thing that breaks such a cycle is asking "What is the right thing to do?" instead seeking pleasure in 'bashing.' Paul reminds us in Romans about the condition of everyone, who is seeking their own way instead of the right way.

Romans 3:13-18
"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."

"The poison of vipers is on their lips."

"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."

"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know."

"There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Dolores Lear

# 5.
Adam and Eve and all Purebred Human Clones Reproducing by Body Birth, made many different types of Humans from the Mixed Genetics in their seed.

Heterosexuals, BLGTs, Incest, Pedophiles, Killers, etc. were Reproduced. The Differences caused Human Prejudice, as they grouped together in different locations.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=prejudice+test&FORM=SOLTDF&pc=SOLTDF&src=IE-SearchBox

We Know today that the mixing Black Slaves seed, with other Colors, did cause Prejudices. With High Tech Science, Humans can control the type of Humans they want for their Civilization.

All White, All Black, or a Mixture. But whatever Color decide for their Clones, they can Reproduce Purebred Clones by High Tech Reproduction, and No Body Birth Mixtures, like Humans tried in the early 1900s.

There are no Surprises like with with Body Birth, when a Child looks different from their Parents, because of Inherited Genetics from Past Ancestors.

Now Humans have come full circle to High Tech again, and do Know Humans can be Reproduced like the God/Us Clones did in Genesis. Reproducing Females Supernaturally by High Tech, from the Celibate Asexual Purebred Male Rib, does Control Misbred Body Birth.

Humans with Body Birth Prejudices, the past 100 years, have Over Reproduced all types of Misbred Humans.

Where are the Humans, to Take Care of Planet Earth, while Misbred Humans Kill Each Other and All Life on Earth, including their their Eco System and Ozone Canopy? Busy 'Getting' and Polluting?

If Humans just Evolved up to our High Tech Science today, should Humans use Genesis 1,2, as a Guide on how to Colonize a Planet, and Reproduce Purebred Male and Female Equal Human Clones, in a High Tech Lab, to Overcome Prejudices?

adam harrison

Chucky, what we have learned about "civility" and "the English language" we learned from you and Iggy!

And your pretense that the FFRF is not ridiculing religion is just blatant lying! Either that, or you are so deluded yourself that you think that your attacks are somehow noble and superior to what Iggy is doing.

Its time for you to get off your high horse; you have engaged in plenty of personal attacks and name calling...the only person who hasn't is Jim and you have tried to smear him with your allegation that he was behaving unethically for him to "allow" people to go to a fraternity party.

As if he had a choice! LOL! (And you smeared fraternities for that matter, but thats another story,) (And if you want to call him, do it, but he isn't fooling with you losers and we are not his errand boys!)

adam harrison

Another billboard from FFRF ridiculing and attacking religion.

This ones for YOU, Chuck!

http://ffrf.org/news/2009/images/whitehall_darwin.jpg

adam harrison

Science!

Because it WORKS!

http://pixdaus.com/pics/CZuWD4s9zrrf.jpg

adam harrison

Oops!

The Science didn't work!

Here we go...science in action!

http://freeatalee.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/atomic-explosion.jpg

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

I believe over analyzing anything is a fool’s game.

What is truth? What is happiness? What is prejudice?

What are you talking about?

Leave the bible out of it and I think a fair society can figure out all these questions on their own.

A few Saturdays ago the subject of teaching religion in public schools was brought up. Jim Christian said it was against the law to teach religion in public schools. This how he thinks.

Here’s an idea: Teach the history of religion and let children choose. Such as: this is what Xs think, this is what Jews think, this is what Muslims think, this is what Buddhists and Hindus think etc. Pretty simple. How can this be offensive or against the law? Just like what is true or happiness?

The pursuit of happiness is a good thing for each of us (short of physical harm to someone).

It is not happiness when someone tells us, shames us, forces us to abide by their happiness.

It doesn’t sneak in anywhere; it is only happiness.

When Iggy’s dog runs and plays is she happy? Maybe we know what is best for her and tell her to sit down and be our kind of happy.

Believing in ghosts, imaginary beings, gets us nowhere toward fairness. I say get your own life and leave the supernatural world where it belongs; back with bronze-age people. Don’t live in the past, but learn from it and move on.

Peace For the Sake of Happiness Cole

Chuck Lunney

Adam and Will, do you really think "argumentum ad ars" (a new logical fallacy I've named - argument from artwork) is effective? And do you really think asking people to think and imagine different things is at all equal to threats of eternal damnation, or lying about what atheists actual say and do?

Once again -- where is the threat/offense/insult in acknowledging that there are other ways of thinking and believing in this world?

As to the nuclear bomb pictures that Adam so lovingly posts -- you do realize that the people who ordered the use of those weapons (both in peacetime and during hostile warfare) were almost all CHRISTIAN and RELIGIOUS? FDR (who ordered the development of the Bomb) and Truman (who ordered the use of two of them in military action) were both Christian.

Also, Samuel Colt was a Christian, and yet his inventions have killed many millions more than all the nukes in the world have so far. In fact, the preferred infantry weapon of the US military is a Colt rifle (http://www.famous-guns.com/colt-m4/). Hmmm, maybe it's not the inventor, but the user who determines whether something is "good" or not.

Just Thinking

Let's analyze Cole's post.

First Cole writes: "I believe over analyzing anything is a fool’s game." And then he also writes, "It is not happiness when someone tells us, shames us, forces us to abide by their happiness." That's what we call irrationality. You attempt to shame and bully while telling others not to shame or bully.

That clear bit of irrationality and logical inconsistency is further compounded by "Believing in ghosts, imaginary beings, gets us nowhere toward fairness. I say get your own life and leave the supernatural world where it belongs; back with bronze-age people." Sounds like more shaming and bullying to me.

So, Cole, do we do as you say, or do we do as you do? Which is it? It certainly can't be both, can it?

"The pursuit of happiness is a good thing for each of us (short of physical harm to someone)." First of all, that's a false statement, because your happiness can interfere with someone else's without causing physical harm. It's not just all about you, Cole, and your pleasure. Others should have the same rights, and that must include the responsibility for you not to infringe on their rights, too. Your happiness OBVIOUSLY includes ridiculing, bullying, and name-calling Christians. Sorry, Cole, but that form of happiness is not "a good thing for each of us."

You can keep making your declarations, but don't expect anyone to buy into your way of thinking until you start leading by example.

Red Biddy

It may be, as Bill said that happiness is not something we can pursue with any success but as an old friend said to me many years ago..."I'd much rather be miserable RICH than miserable POOR !"

History tells us that before the words "pursuit of happiness" were inserted in the Declaration of Independence, it was considered that the phrase might have read "Life, Liberty and Property" - so owning things (like capital, houses, that new HDTV ?) would it seems to have been replaced by "happiness" or might even have been wrongly interpreted as a possible source of that happiness.

Isn't this this the American Dream though ? If so it is certainly in contrast to the Biblical injunction "Lay not up for yourselves treasures on this earth, where moth and dust do corrupt and thieves break in and steal".
That one is usually ignored by most Americans in this "country under God" isn't it ?

I think the phrase "pursuit of happiness" should be interpreted not as a pursuit of "things" per se, but as the freedom to pursue our dreams and goals without obstacles put in our way by either by a totalitarian government or the often cruel injunctions from an imaginary God.

Example of this was the long spiel in regard to "God's view" of homosexuality as outlined by (was it traplock ?) yesterday....such rants go in complete opposition of our founders intention that the "pursuit of happiness", be it it gay marriage and human rights of any kind, should be extended to every citizen of these United States.

Just Thinking

"When Iggy’s dog runs and plays is she happy? Maybe we know what is best for her and tell her to sit down and be our kind of happy."

I can see by that remark that you truly do not understand rights of others. Iggy's dog can do all sorts of things that will interfere with the happiness of others and, yes, we expect there to be reasonable rules so that doesn't happen. Yes, we expect Iggy's dog to be happy while living within the confines of his/her leash.

It really can't just be about your unhindered pleasure in this world, Cole, because unbridled and unleashed hedonism inevitably leads to the violation of others' rights. At some point, you need to be told what not to do, or your inconsiderate pleasure-seeking is going to turn to bullying others, just as it has on this blog. Far too many people find pleasure in bullying, including you, Cole, and KCFreeThinkers.org.

Those who insist on not being told what to do always seem to be the first to want to tell others what to do. The bullies never want to bullied, do they, Cole?

God's rules are not just "being told what not to do." God's rules implement rights, too. Thou shalt not steal is "telling you what not to do," but it also gives you the right to own and possess. Thou shalt not commit adultery, and thou shalt not covet your neighbor's wife is "telling you want not to do," but it also gives you the right to engage in a marriage where others do not invade the sanctity of that marriage.

See how it works? You can't have rights without responsibilities. Unbridled and unleashed pursuit of happiness is not a right. I don't want your dog's piles in my yard.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Christian History Denier Just Thinking wrote>>>>>>>>..You attempt to shame and bully while telling others not to shame or bully.

Sounds like something the space alien Yahwheh would do and his android sidekick Jesus.

>>>>>>>So, Cole, do we do as you say, or do we do as you do? Which is it? It certainly can't be both, can it?

Sounds like you don't know what "can be" and what "can't" :o) - Cole is telling you what he means - you have not opened up your heart for the Holy Noodley Appendage of His Holiness the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Only when you act as a child and accept Him and his messiagh Hannibal Lector to clone you a new brain, can you finally understand the quantum mechanical beauty of "absolute truth"

>>>>>>>..First of all, that's a false statement, because your happiness can interfere with someone else's without causing physical harm.

Could not have said any better about your space alien Yahweh being happy and creating the whole frigging world in the minds of the bronze age people to please himself (be hedonistic) and others who adhere to his imaginary fables pushing their version of happiness - thanks!

>>>>>>>>>>...Others should have the same rights, and that must include the responsibility for you not to infringe on their rights, too.

Who is infringing on your rights? Delusions... Delusions... You are BSing here on this blog all you want, you can pray at your job (provided your employer is OK with it and you are not interfereing with others and business), your kids can pray privately in school and your religious rights are protected, you can go to your church - who the hell is infringing on your rights?

You mean you have a"right not to be offended" or something? Sure you do, crawl under the rock, shut up and don't get out in the real world - nobody will offend you - ever!

Tough cookies, the freedom of speech doesn't mean the other person's right not to be offended - you in your case, or as you call it "infringmenet" on your rights.

You sound like an attorney I know, let's call him Jim... The same babble and same non sequitors.

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

I figured you would take it this way. You are so easy. It won’t work with me, JT.

So if I speak out against people who try to control because of their bible, I am a bully?

Call it what you want. You and your high school buddies always twist it around. Another KC Shuffle, JT.

You state it in such a fashion that people should never oppose others’ beliefs. Well, guess what? I get too. It is not only my right, but my duty to help move the world away from supernaturalism. It is what it is, Jt., supernaturalism. Your X god is nowhere. Where did your god come from?

Go ahead and quote me some biblical verses. What will it mean? You will just be repeating what bronze-age men wrote. What they might have believed 2000 yrs ago. In so much of the bible you don’t even know who wrote what book.

Your god isn’t going to move us ahead in science. He just seems to be the reasons why we must rely on science.

JT, if you are offended by words maybe you should grow up. Be an adult. Offended? Please. Get a life in the real world where people get to challenge religion. You are so funny, so serious.

Peace For the Sake of Fun Cole

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