Muslims still targets: 9-12/13-09
Recovering Jewish history: 9-15-09

The choices we make: 9-14-09

TWJP-1

Take a good look at the four people in the front row of this photo.

From left to right they are Maria Devinki of Kansas City, Felicia Graber of St. Louis, Zygie Allweiss of Detroit and Jerry Koenig of St. Louis.

This photo would have been impossible had each of these Jews not had non-Jewish help to survive the Holocaust. Because each one of them survived in Poland, non-Jews basically meant Catholic Christians, who risked their lives and the lives of their families to save Jews.

We invited Maria, Felicia, Zygie and Jerry to join us this past weekend for several launch events for the new book Rabbi Jacques Cukierkorn (he's in the back row with me) and I have written, They Were Just People: Stories of Rescue in Poland During the Holocaust. Although all of them could not be with us all weekend, each of them spoke this past Thursday evening at the Plaza branch of the Kansas City Library, when some 600 people showed up to hear about the book and hear their stories. In events Thursday, Friday and Sunday, a total of nearly 1,000 people showed up.

What a gratifying evening -- and weekend -- it was for us.

They are remarkable people. But what I invite you to think about is how the decisions made by their non-Jewish rescuers have affected the world. Maria has great-grandchildren. Felicia, a mother, spent a career teaching children. Zygie has grandchildren, as does Jerry. And there is so much more to their post-war stories.

The Talmud says that to save one life is to save the whole world.

We may never be asked to risk our lives to save the lives of others. But each hour of each day we can choose to behave in ways that repair the world. That's really what our new book is about.

(By the way, if you're on Facebook, search on "They Were Just People" and join our book's FB page, where some good conversation will take place over the upcoming months.)

* * *

A RELIGION NEWS DEPRESSION

Religion reporting is in a recession, this report says. Well, my take is that it's always been in a recession and now is moving toward a great depression -- just when it's needed most. But it won't get better unless the news-consuming public demands better. Have you complained about how little in the way of resources news organizations put into religion? If not, why not?

Comments

Will Graham

Bill, interesting point about religion reporting being in a recession.

But I don't think that most of the posters here have a problem with that. The most outpoken one of them says that he wants believers to SHUT UP and DIE...those are his words...and I don't see much disagreement. (They even bragged last year...on their now defunct discussion board...they they were going to shut this site down.)

Heck, in her last post yesterday Susan even admitted that she had a double standard and had no problem with such remarks because they were directed at the majority...as if bigotry is allright if it is directed at the group presently having the greater numbers.

Such collaboration makes it finally clear to me that there is not going to be a common ground found between the opposing views...theism on the one side, atheism and its collaborators on the other.

So, Bill, I think you are right, that it is moving toward a great depression.

It make take another round of Gulags before the believers wake up; even though the atheists make clear thats what they want.

(And save me the cackles of protest...when someone repeatedly tells believers to shut up and die and gets no real opposition from other atheists, and even collaboraton from ostensible believers, the fact has to be faced is that the only way that will be imposed is by force applied by a ruling government.)

Of course, in the end such systems fail and self destruct, but it will be a long road.

Dolores Lear

Bill. Great Book Signing Events for you and the Rabbi.

Bill:
"But what I invite you to think about is how the decisions made by their non-Jewish rescuers have affected the world. - The Talmud says that to save one life is to save the whole world."

Today, Humans are Faced with Saving the Whole World.

On a Home Planet, Humans with Uncontrolled Primitive Body Birth, are the Misbred Killer Human Species, with Generation Birth, Death and Rebirth.

The Purebred Peace Human Species, God/Us, with High Tech Controlled Equal Male and Female Clone Birth, are our High Tech Human Ancestors, in our Image, with Eternal Physical Life After Birth on Planets and in Spaceships.

To make Purebred Humans, Males must be Purebred Celibate Humans like Jesus, for of such is in the Kingdom of Heaven. Then the Female Clone of the Male is also Purebred/Celibate.

Purebred Male and Female Humans have Perfect Genetic and Physical Bodies. Perfect Humans have an Equal Sharing, Peace Celibate Lifestyle on Planets, like our Astronauts practice in our iss Spaceship, for 6 month periods.

Heterosexual Sex results in Misbred Human Reproduction, with Death to Humans and their Planet.

Will High Tech Perfect Genetic and Physical Reproduction and Regeneration, do away with all the Flesh Lusts, and the Killing of Body Birth Humans on Earth?

What does Misbred Mean? Genetic and Physical Defects from two Parents? Children Having UnEqual Birth, UnEqual Sharing, with Killing each other, and their Home Planet?

Is Planetary Death where Evolution Misbred Life Ends on Earth?

Continued.

Dolores Lear

Continue.

Our High Tech today, can explain this Supernatural Mystery of Eve's Birth from Adam's Rib. On another Planet Humans did Evolve to High Tech, did Reproduce High Tech Birth Male and Female Clones, and did ot Kill their Planet, and did Colonize Earth with this Higher Human Species.

The High Tech Killer Gods in Religion and Myth were not the Peace God/Us in Genesis. They were the High Tech Misbred Body Birth Humans of the Noah/Atlantis Society with Killing High Tech, like we are today.

Their Unbalanced Elements set up the Planetary Flood, not God/Us. Misbred High Tech Humans today are setting up the Unbalanced Elements for the Prophesied Planetary Judgment Day Fire, not the Trinity God of the Christian Religion today.

The Purebred God/Us High Tech Humans in Genesis, do not Kill, and are Equal Male and Female Clone Caretakers of GODs LIFE, with Eternal Physical Life After Birth.

Otherwise they could not Colonize a new Planet, and would Die on their Planet, like we do. God/Us, the Peace High Tech Human Species, do have Eternal Physical Life on Earths and in Spaceships.

The Bible, and All Scriptures and Myths, with a High Tech Translation, Tell Humans today thar God/Us in Genesis, is our High Tech Perfect Human Clone Caretaker Species Ancestors from Space, not the GOD that made the Universe Elements of LIFE, that developed into Physical Life as we know it.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Religous depression?

It's undavoidable... All religions die out sooner or later, or morph. Today's Xianity would be unrecognizable to a "mainstream" Xian in 300's or even 1500's or even in 1800. Each generation "cherry picks" what they want from it to suit their own life style in a morally relativistic fashion and then they also cherry pick individually, so it's a losing battle.

Religious stories seem comical, outdated, simplistic and narrow minded to me. There is unlikely going to be a "resurgence" in religious "revival" and coverage in media. There is a YouTube clip where FoxNews commentators are lamenting about "atheism" bias in America all the while "twisting" "secularism" into "atheism" - I can care less, as long as it's not another comics book that is being pushed.

The only way religion would not be covered "enough" in a free market economy or "cut down" is "when people don't want to know about it", "don't care about it" and "reject" - advertisers go where the eye balls are and apparently, editors are scratching their own eyeballs out to make a living.

Religion is a dated institution. There is NOTHING in my opinion that we need in today's world that cannot be adequatly described by rational means. We may hear some abberration stories about a certain denomination growing, or during some of the Bible studies we keep hearing though Xianity is dwindling in America, it is growing in Africa, e.g.

OK, after Xianity takes over Africa and they are "westernized" and standard of living grows, people begin to understand the "materialistic nature" of our existance what's next for religion there? Islam and Xianity will merge? - to create another super religion? Some other "voodoo" version of Xianity will emerge?

Quite possible, there maybe another Gospel found or Jesus will come down for a fishing trip with his dad Yahweh in Canada and after a few beers decide to show to the world that the space alien wrote something after all and it's totally different? - the Cannon is not closed and here is the latest from Jesus Christ? If Jesus himself would come down today to make an "ammendment" to the Bible, the same Xians would probably crusify him again...

Would be interesting...

Dolores Lear

The Choices Humans Make!

No One has their Choice of Parents, Genetic and Physical Makeup, and their Environment. Rich or Poor, Haves or Havenots, Leader or a Citizen, Rich or Poor, All Humans Die. The Rich cannot take their Riches with them.

A Person's Destiny is at their Place of Birth. No Choice there.

A few can escape their Humble Beginning, but most just make do to Keep Alive until Death, in whatever Country, Ethnic Group, and Religion into which they are born.

Humans on Earth, have Discovered High Tech Science, the past 100 years! So what did Humans do with it?

Make Light Bulbs, Cars, Indoor Plumbing, Radios, TV, Airplanes, Atom Bombs, and Space Shuttles?

Humans Reproduced a Fetus in the Lab, and Cloned Animals. They did stop, at Reproducing Perfect Genetic and Physical Humans, like Eve was the Female Clone of Adam, by God/Us in Genesis. Why?

Was that just a Fairy Tale? Is so, is the Bible God/Us, in our Human Image, a Fairy Tale?

Oh, the Choices Humans make, when it comes to Life or Death on Earth. To Be or Not To Be faces Humans today.

Humans have our Home Planet covered with Killing Pollution of all kinds of High Tech and Nuclear Waste. Why?

And Nuclear Bombs on land and sea. What for? Choices Humans make for Life or Death of our Planet?

Where is the Peace on Earth, Good Will to Men, that Jesus, the Prince of Peace taught?

Is Human Everlasting Life to Come, After Death? Why not High Tech Everlasting Life After Birth? Jesus is Alive Physically, in Space, to Prove it.

High Tech Science can be used for Good instead of Evil, by High Tech Purebred Humans, like God/Us and Jesus, on Planets and in Spaceships.

The Bible, All Scriptures, and Myth tells Eternal Life is for the Physical Living Humans, not the Dead.

Dolores Lear

Bill, the news recession in the newspapers may be true, but your book lists keep growing. :)

And new Mega Churches are growing. It is just the Old Time Religions that are waning, as happened down through time, from many extinct Father, Mother, Son religions. Are there any left today, like there were in Rome and Egypt at Jesus' time?

I hope the High Tech Science Equal Male and Female Birth Lifestyle, with Freedom from Death, and Equality of the Earth's Resources for All Life, on Planets and in Spaceships, is the next step for the Human Civilization on Earth.

Or Death and Destruction is inevitable from all the Pollution and Nuclear Bombs that the Body Birth Killer Humans have committed to their Home Planet. Eternal Human Life After Birth should be the Goal of All Humans, not Eternal Life After Death.

Today we Know with our High Tech Science, Humans are made from Life Elements and at Physical Death Return to Life elements.

God/Us in Genesis proved High Tech Purebred Humans can travel to a new Planet and Colonize it.

So What Went Wrong? Humans reverted to Evolution Animalistic Body Birth, and Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth began on Earth, up to our High Tech Knowledge again today, in the past 100 years?

Evolution Theory usually takes Millions of years for Humans to Evolve to High Tech Science.

So Evolution for Millions of Years, or Fallen Purebred High Tech Human Clones to Body Birth Misbred Children, our Planet is in trouble today.

What do Humans do now? Stop Killing Each Other and our Home Planet? Is there time for Peace and Good Will for Humans, before the Planetary Judgment Day Fire that will make Earth null and void of Life, like Mars?

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Perhaps there is less religious attention because there is less interest.

The more we live in the real, natural, world the more we with deal with life in a rational way.

In these bad times religion still finds time to be unfair to certain groups of people.

This is a perfect time in history for a reality check.

Lets move on and spend more time with science, and promoting science, than with the supernatural.

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Richard Dawkins book "The Greatest Show on Earth" is going to contribute a bit more to depression of religion.

In it he introduces a "scientificalized" alternative to calling "evolution" as "theory" - "theorum". Makes no difference to me, sounds a bit like a mouthful, may down the line it will "trickle down" to "mass consciousness" of folks.

But the most interesting case I think he makes is calling "creationists" as "history deniers" - a great "moniker/label" that invokes "negative" feelings towards the "creationist crazies" - Xian, Muslims or others.

Reviews of the book have been all pretty good - Dawkins is still beligerent, unapologetic about calling "creationists" "delusional" about evolutionary understanding.

As a side note, the newest feature film on Darwin's personal life (not evolutionary documentary, but a feature on his family, relationship with his wife and family) did not find a distributor in the US, while it sold all over the world.

American "history deniers" (US "consumers" of movies and "scientific rationality") appear to be able to "influence" the market of "distribution" - movies in this case.

I think that Christian history deniers is a good terminology for "crazy Christians". Maybe they can under this new name finally crawl under the rock, shut up, die there with their crazy ideas or get finally crashed by the rock?

"Here lie Christian history deniers" - I'd pay for the tomb stone.

adam harrison

Iggy claims that the Christians of ther 300's would not recognize Christianity today.

This is of course baseless nonsense.

But Iggy further says Christians must SHUT UP or DIE!

Thats the same thing the government told Christians in the glorious motherland he grew up in.

Only one catch.

It didn't work, and the government self destructed.

And Died.

And it ended up with Iggy getting the hell out of there and to the Overland Park as quick as he could! Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!

Some people never learn.

Dolores Lear

Cole.

I post about High Tech Science all the time. Why not come out of the Jungle and Grass Huts, :) and consider our High Tech Science Colonization, and Reproduction in the High Tech Lab, is the Supernatural that Christians, Jews and Muslims Scriptures write about?

For how Life Began on Earth, Supernatural Science and Intelligent Design, are closer to the High Tech Science Truth of today, than Evolution.

At least their writings describe Humans in our image, Creating Life on Earth, in their Image, flying up in the air and out into Space.

And Landing on Mountains in a pillar of fire, smoke and thunder. And Human Gods and Angels/High Tech Humans, talking to Humans face to face.

But there is No Science like that in Evolution, until the past 100 years. Why should we Ignore all the Past Religious Scriptures and Myths of Supernatural when we are doing the Same today, except for Humans traveling to other Planets in Space, like God/Us did in Genesis?

We do have Shuttles that take off with pillars of fire smoke and thunder, and a Light Brighter than the Sun, which is usually is connected with the Biblical God.

So I have a job of convincing Religionists Theories and Evolutionists Theories, and hope they both start looking at all the High Tech information in Print, about how our High Tech reflects the Truth of the Supernatural Life on Earth, High Tech Colonization and Reproducing Humans in the Lab today, by Humans, is not Delusional.

Keep talking about Science your way, so I can keep responding my way, and maybe the Twain's shall meet.

Susan

Will, where did I say that I had "no problem" with Iggy's "crawl under a rock and die" comments? I simply said I have MORE of a problem with people attacking marginalized groups.

When I was a minority in a couple of my work situations, I didn't always "like" the occasional anti-white attitudes I encountered (and it's weird how the negative stuff stands out more in my memory than the vast majority of interactions which were positive) -- but in my case, being part of the majority culture, it was easy enough for me to find other work situations if I didn't like where I was at, whereas minorities are minorities just about everywhere they go.

Bill, I wish I were more of a newspaper reader. Then I would probably be complaining -- because I definitely agree with the writer of that article you linked to, that it's important to have some reporting from someone with a critical distance.

adam harrison

The affinity of Gulag Denial and Holocaust denial.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=24467

adam harrison

What does Darwin's personal life have to do with Science?

And why his relationship with his wife and family something that should be passed off as "Science Education".

adam harrison

Cole, have you noticed the irony in your buddy telling people to shut up and die...and now saying they should be crushed with a rock...and your continuously signing off "Peace for the sake of Goodness. Cole."

Are you really that much of a hypocrite?

And Susan, are you saying you DO have a problem with Iggy's comments?

What problem is that?

Personally, I think that someone who says people should "die" that much, even in jest, needs some counseling.

But what the heck, he's your little buddy.

adam harrison

Oh, and as to SHUT UP and DIE comments...

I liked Will's answer.

You gonna make me, Sport?

Susan

adamh, my problem with Iggy's comments is that they come across as really unkind, and I think he could make whatever point he wants to make without talking about anyone dying. I think he does it to get your back up, because having met him in person a couple of times, and realizing he is really a nice person, I can sense that he doesn't really want anyone to crawl under a rock and die.

So he is not only coming across as unkind: I also think he is saying stuff he doesn't really mean, and I wish he would stop but I don't think he will, because it's fun to him to piss you guys off.

Whereas, with Dan Beyer's comments lumping all Muslims into one homogenous group: I don't know him in person, but this comes across to me as serious. He thinks we shouldn't care about whatever persecution Muslims go through here in the U.S., because some Muslim are terrorists extremists. He wants to punish the many for the actions of the few. It's just wrong.

And, yes, Beyer's comment seems much more harmful to me that what Iggy is saying. Because persecution of Muslims here in the U.S. seems like a much more realistic possibility than does persecution of Christians.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Susan wrote>>>>>>>.Whereas, with Dan Beyer's comments lumping all Muslims into one homogenous group: I don't know him in person, but this comes across to me as serious. He thinks we shouldn't care about whatever persecution Muslims go through here in the U.S., because some Muslim are terrorists extremists. He wants to punish the many for the actions of the few. It's just wrong.

Susan,

You are catching on onto the "defintion" of "crazy" in Christianity. This is where "dogma" of irrationality comes in in faith. Dan Beyer as a "crazy fundie" is "following the schematics that his space alien Yahweh" laid out for him - "if you are not with us, you are against us" or something pretty close. Sounds familiar? Yep, "the Bush Doctrine" had that as a pillar and more...

Jesus was lumping non Jews into "dogs" and not worthy of preaching to them - at least during the times of the apostles. There was one exeption of the Syrian woman who withstood the modern equivalent of calling a black person "Nigger" today - some god this Jesus was.

"Fools" have said in their heart there is no god. Bastard children for 10 generations could not come into the temple of god... "Us & them" is the reality of "crazy Christians".

When we go to "crazy" Churches - Baptists and Lutheran of MO Synod, we keep hearing about persection of Christians today, all others being of "fake" faiths, etc. - including Moslems and Jews. Psychologically, they cannot say antyhing else - this is how they are taught and this is what they think.

More moderate Xian secular movments are totally differnt. They think of tomorrow rather than "Rapture" and they will be much different. The reality of this is striking.

Crazies should crawl under the rock of reality, shut up and die there alredy crushed by the overwhelming evidence of them being "crazy".

adam harrison

I get it, Iggy is using a metaphor!

One problem though, he despises metaphors!

You know, like when he says "You don't tell three little piggy stories when you order pork chops."

So, why would he tell three little piggy stories like telling people to SHUT UP AND DIE.

Susan, we will just have to disgree on your assesment of Iggy. I also have met him, and know people who have talked to him, and you are forgetting what system he was raised under.

And they system he was raised under MEANT WHAT IT SAID!

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Students must learn about other religions: judge
Parents say new course threatens Christian faith
"What parents were demanding was the right to ignorance, the right to protect their children from being exposed to the existence of other religions,". "This right to ignorance is certainly not protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Freedom of religion does not protect the right not to know what is going on in our universe."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1956333

Molecular Decay Of Enamel-specific Gene In Toothless Mammals Supports Theory Of Evolution
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090904071650.htm

Susan

Iggy, adamh does have a point when he says you don't like metaphors.

So now I am wondering, do you REALLY want people you perceive as religious crazies to "crawl under a rock and die"?

If you don't mean it, I wish you'd quit saying it. And if you do mean it, I wish you didn't mean it. Yes, I know you will say I can pray to God about it. I guess I will -- but it'd sure be nice if you could just quit saying crap like that.

I do have a feeling that the "crawl under a rock and die"-crap would fizzle out if everyone could just start ignoring it and get on with real discussion.

For instance, adamh and Will, what about our halted discussion of I Timothy 2:11-14, in which Paul limits the role of women in the churches and gives, as his rationale for this, the Genesis account in which woman was made after man, and was the one who got deceived and sinned.

Your last comment about this was something along the lines of standing by your previous argument -- which, if I understood you right, you were saying that Paul's whole rationale for wanting women to keep silent, and not to teach or have authority over men, was just to protect women from the persecution. I've been wondering how you guys rationalize replacing Paul's SPOKEN rationale with the rationale he never gave but that you guys attribute to him?

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Susan, not sure if I can be any clearer than this what I expressed earlier today...

"Crazies should crawl under the rock of reality, shut up and die there alredy crushed by the overwhelming evidence of them being "crazy".

If you need any more clarifications, I don't know if I can do any better. It's up to the "individual" crazies to find their own rock and die under it already with their crazy ideas.

Metaphor or do I really want them to do so? You decide how to answer this question. I am here to raise them and provide my answers.

a.theist

adamh,

"Peace For The Sake Of Goodness"

Cole has repeatedly demonstrated that he is an angry, lonely old man with few friends, most like icky I imagine. He is no more interested in peace or goodness that I am interested in rantings of Kanye West.

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