Colleges' religious roots: 8-29/30-09
A date living in infamy: 9-1-09

Are we all Hindus? 8-31-09

Sometimes I am at least slightly mystified by some of the journalism on religion that I see, hear and view.

Hinduism

An example is a recent Newsweek piece called "We Are All Hindus Now." The point of the piece seems to be that the religious views and commitments of American citizens are changing. Well, yes. But that's not exactly news.

The piece also pointed out that some of Americans' newer views and positions on religious issues tend to resemble some of the views and approaches that Hindus have long held -- such as the notion that there are many paths to God and that no one religion represents all the truth.

Well, it's kind of interesting to make that point and, as the reporter, Lisa Miller, did, to use some recent polls and studies to back it up. Indeed, there really is something to that point.

But the reality is that most Americans, by far, still are Christian (however they would define that) and a big segment of those Christians intentionally steer away from almost all of the "Hindu-like" approaches that Miller suggests Americans are adopting. I can see such Christians reading such pieces (at least the headline) and imagining that the media, again, just don't get it.

So the headline, "We Are All Hindus Now," is clearly a wild stretch and nowhere near to truth. Yes, yes, I know that in some ways such headlines are metaphor, are hints, suggestions, are word plays. Their purpose often is not to convey accurate information but, rather, to draw readers in so they can be told information they might need.

But if publications such as Newsweek want to maintain any credibility with the wide range of Christians in America, perhaps something more accurate would be called for.

* * *

IDENTIFYING FAITH IN CYBERSPACE

How do you list your religion on Facebook? I identify myself there simply as a Presbyterian elder. Some folks with the Washington Post's religion blog have been checking out some politicians. Click here to see what they found. Does any of this matter?

* * *

P.S.: My latest Presbyterian Outlook column now is online. To read it, click here. To read all my previous Outlook column, click here.

ANOTHER P.S.: Please plan to join me and my co-author, Rabbi Jacques Cukierkorn, at one of the two events described here to launch our new book, They Were Just People: Stories of Rescue in Poland During the Holocaust. Rainy Day Books will be there to help you buy a copy and you'll even get to meet some of the people whose remarkable stories we tell in the book.

Comments

Will Graham

Bill, you say the religious views of American citizens are changing? So? The Gospel of Christ remains the same.

The end of Christianity, frequently predicted on this board by those who want "pychotic" and "delusional" believers to SHUT UP, KEEP THEIR BELIEFS TO THEMSELVES, and to "crawl under a rock and die", (since there are no Gulags...at the moment...to send believers to) has also been frequently predictd in the past.

By:
Voltaire God Won

Paine God Won

Marx God Won

Darwin God Won

Nietzsche God Won

Ingersoll God Won

Russell God Won

Freud God Won

Lenin God Won

Trotsky God Won

Sartre God Won

O'Hair God Won

Sagan God Won

Gould God Won

and I could go on... many of these men had great power behind them, some even had the power to torture and kill, and used it.

They all failed.

Its interesting that the most common tactics, ridicule and insult and subtle threats that prevail on this board on the same tactics most commonly used by governments in the past that all collapsed.

And yet they seem to think it will work here.

It won't. Not even with a string of collaborators backing them up.

Will Graham

Susan, IF some Sunday School teacher told your child she was going to hell for lying, that "teacher" was certainly not promoting the Gospel.

The offer of salvation through Christ is a free offer to anyone, but those who reject it will be on their own. If your understanding of the Gospel is that individual acts determine our fate, and not the work of Christ, then perhaps you don't undertand the gospel.

Susan, other than telling your daughter that God won't send anyone to hell, have you told her about the Gospel?

Just wondering.

And what benefit do you think she will get from being around men who talk about believers like Iggy and Cole do?

Just wondering about that too.

Will Graham

Iggy, just so you can't lie about it later...if you want us all to show up at your study tonight post the information before noon.

We told you before that a short notice, even one hour, is not enough to co ordinate everyone showing up.

You, of course, know this, and that is why you refuse to post reasonable notice.

So, is you want us all there...post it before NOON.

Because we all have other activities that we could pursue.

So, SPORT, this is your chance!

(And I tell you right now, you have been giving the impression that these events are some BIG DEAL...if its only a case of three or four people being there and you and Cole showing up to pass insults, since you have no Biblical or Historical knowledge to contribute, then forget it.)

Will Graham

Susan, you keep saying that you can't be inside someone's brain, as if that is some kind of exuse for the things your buddies say.

If, for example, someone keeps lying about believers, making little subtle threats, or bragging about their guns and "sharp knives" and laughing about CASTRATING someone, doesn't that give you an idea of what is in their brain?

Whatever.

I realize the atheist troll is a "hit and run troll"...he loves to make smears and tell lies about believers, and then when clearly refuted he simply ignores it and proceeds to new accusations.

And those who defend him are no better.

When are you coming out, Susan?

Will Graham

Article on atheist morality, rape, and aliens...discussing the views of DAN BARKER (much loved by the local atheists) and Sam Harris (also a favorite):

http://atheismisdead.blogspot.com/2009/08/dan-barker-and-alien-rape-voyeurs-part_30.html

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Atheists attend a Bible Study tonight Monday 7:00 p.m
E-mail iggykc@gmail.com for info. A chapter from New Testament will be discussed. Last week out of first 23 verses of the chapter 10 or so were completely omitted - Jesus says things that maybe questionable. We'll find out why they did not include them and chat with the Christians.

Tuesday (tomorrow) - 3 or 4 of us will attend 7:30 p.m Bible study at Bethany Lutheran - we'll be finishing Book of Joshua.

Bethany Lutheran Church
2nd Floor, Room 209
9101 Lamar Ave, Overland Park, KS

Christian trolls - you have plenty of notice (more than 24 hours) to attend this Bible study. Cannot wait to look into your delusional eyes - hope you show up and put up a "show" as you promised.

In September we also plan on attending some Bible studies at a fundamentalist church (no curriculum yet).

Also two separate "apologetics" classes on Jesus and "truth" - a fundamental church's minister has personally pointed us to these two bible studies at his church and stated they will include "discussion" - whatever it means in "fundamental" context - should be fun! If "discussion" is based on "being christian and accepting the bible as innerrant word of god" - don't know why "discussions" are necessary.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

This paragraph was pretty interesting in the "Newsweek" article mentioned above>>>>>>
Americans are no longer buying it. According to a 2008 Pew Forum survey, 65 percent of us believe that "many religions can lead to eternal life"—including 37 percent of white evangelicals, the group most likely to believe that salvation is theirs alone. Also, the number of people who seek spiritual truth outside church is growing. Thirty percent of Americans call themselves "spiritual, not religious," according to a 2009 NEWSWEEK Poll, up from 24 percent in 2005

These numbers are really "stagerring". The minister at the Sunday Bible study pointed unequivocally that "only through Jesus" you can come to god. To this particular denomination there is no "other" numbers. Only "their" numbers make sense. This minister also said that Xinity is growing outside US because "Xians are being killed!" The silliness of this arguement was stressed more when I read this article about government of South Korea telling missionaries that they "increase" danger to themselves and jeopardize others when they go on missions to countries that don't welcome them - a "normal" individual will understand, a "crazy" Xian will be "strengthened" in his view that governments are "evil". Yesterday, at the same church a lady asked what would goverment leaders all over the world say when there is "Rapture" - we laughed at it saying "Let's see if it happens first and then we'll discuss it".

I also proposed to this lady my "Rapture Pets" service - I'll take care of her dog for a fee when Rapture happens. She'll assign her car and house and any other assets she has to me as she will not need them in heaven. She was very intrigued to know about it. So, why not help innocent pets when Rapture happens? Why do animals need to be punished by god?

Dolores Lear

How do you list your religion on Facebook?

What difference does it make? How many different religions are there on Earth? Does listing your religious connection make more problems? Humans have been killing each other over 'things', religion, and country ever since Cain Killed Abel. Why?

Is Facebook just another Way to cause Hate, between Brothers/Sisters on our Home Planet? How does Religion make a person a better Citizen of our Home Planet? When they give their Allegiance to Country over God?

Why is God's Planet covered with Toxic Pollution, and Nuclear Bombs on land and sea? Because of all the different God religions do not love God's Planet? Where did all this Hate Come From?

High Tech Humans today need to translate all Holy Scriptures and Myth writings, about the Past History on Earth, with the High Tech Knowledge of Planet Colonization and Male and Female Clone Reproduction, like God 'Us' Male and Female Humans, in our Image did in Genesis.

What Good does posting Religious Preference do, on Facebook or any Document, when Humans are Killing their Planet and Each Other, instead of Taking Care of All Life on our Earth Home. How are Humans doing so far?

If the Human Species are a Killer Species instead of the Caretaker Species of Planet Earth, who or what is the Caretaker? God? How is 'He' doing so far?

What does Religious Preference and Government, and Pollution and Nuclear Bombs, have to do with Taking Care of the Living Life on Earth, and our Planet?

What does it mean to be Human?

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Are we all Hindus? I’m not. I’m an atheist.

We are all born an atheist. Then some one teaches us to be something else. Pretty simple. If you are born in America you are likely to taught to be a X. If you are born in China it is likely you are not-

Last night we went to bible study. Five showed. 3 nonbelievers 2 believers and no preacher. We sat together and talked for a few minutes. We ‘all’ laughed and joked.

Having fun then one lady saw some papers on a chair.

We nonbelievers were asked not to come back. Four or five paragraphs to say he was sorry.

For some reason god must have wanted him to write us a letter instead of telling us to our face.

So god’s word was canceled for a week and two Xs came for no reason because why?

One lady and I were the first ones there and she had told me she thought about not coming. But no she said, “When you stop coming it is hard to start back.” I asked her why that is- She said she didn’t know, it just was-

Oh, welll, god works in mysterious ways…

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

adam harrison

Igor, you wonder what "discussion" means in a fundamentalist context?

I wonder what "DISCUSSION" means in your ATHEIST CONTEXT!

Insult?

Ridicule?

Subtle threats?

Recording and tracking people?

Telling them to SHUT UP?

Since you never discuss here, why are we supposed to think you would at a bible study?

I don't care about a study where three or four people show. I want to see the one TONIGHT where 40 or more show!

TONITE IS THE NITE SPORT!

Tell us where it is BEFORE NOON and you WILL GET YOUR SHOW! Three or four Lutherans in not enought to get us all out! School. Work. Christian chicks. We got things to do, sport! LOL!

Bring your little laptop and recording equipment!!!

adam harrison

Susan, although I don't have any kids yet, I do have nieces and nephews.

I can't imagine the value of having them spend a Saturday nite around men who talk about believers like some of the posters here.

After all, Cole says they are "psychotic". If you daughter is a believer he is saying she is psychotic. Or delusional.

I don't know if your husband knows what is said here, but if he would knowingly let his daughters be around people who talk like that he is not much of a man.

adam harrison

Iggy, I am curious about your services you offer Christians.

Have any of them actually transferred any assets to you?

Just wondering.

PreacherDJ

Again, Dr. Mohler has already covered this topic, and very well: http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=4336.

Bill's statement that "most Americans, by far, still are Christian (however they would define that)" indicates something of what the article is saying. It doesn't matter how one person or another defines being a Christian. It matters how being a Christian is defined. There is one definition, not many. Like a room full of mirrors, only one image is the real thing. Everyone else is just using the word for their own purposes.

Dolores Lear

Iggy:
"The minister at the Sunday Bible study pointed unequivocally that "only through Jesus" you can come to god. To this particular denomination there is no "other" numbers. Only "their" numbers make sense."

Are there Christians that do not believe this religious teaching? Is it possible to be a 'Christian and not believe this?

Christians are being Killed all over Planet Earth. So are all other Religious Members. Christian members on both sides of different Governments have Killed Each Other.

Christians in USA Wars did this in the USA, and in other Countries.

Killing is the Name of the Game of Life on Earth for Religion, Government, Family and the Earth's Environment.. It makes no difference to Religious or Atheist Humans, what they do to their Home Planet or their Brothers/Sisters of Life.

Christian Soldiers are being Killed, and Kill others, in Iraq and Afghanistan. Religious Soldiers all around the world, Kill each other.

How does Human Killing and War, help bring Peace and Good Will to Religious Humans on God's Planet, our Earthly Home?

What does Generation Birth, Killing, Death and Rebirth do to our Home Planet? Kill it with Wars, Pollution, and Nuclear Waste and Bombs?

Eternal Life is for Living High Tech Birth Humans, with Peace, Eternal Life is not for Human Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth until they Kill their Home Planet, and All Life on it, with a Planetary Judgment Day Fire.

The Planetary Judgment Day Flood was done by High Tech Humans, not God. And we who are Living today, and can 'See' that the Judgment Day Fire, will be done by High Tech Religious Human Majority today, not God.

Lynne - www.kcfreethinkers.org

Bill, I see other inaccuracies in the article as well.

From the linked article:
>Christians traditionally believe that bodies and souls are sacred, that together they comprise the "self," and that at the end of time they will be reunited in the Resurrection.

I think most Christians today, even conservative ones, realize that dead bodies decay.

>In reincarnation, central to Hinduism, selves come back to earth again and again in different bodies.

Wrong again. In Hinduism, there is no self. What gets reincarnated is a "subtle essence" but it is in no way what we consider the self - who we are, our personality, our memories, etc. In Hinduism,none of that is stable anyway. It's constantly changing and therefore an illusion.

>More than a third of Americans now choose cremation

That doesn't necessarily indicate Hindu-ish beliefs about what happens after we die. I told my family I would prefer cremation but that's because I think a casket is a waste of money and a waste of land space. Also, it's usually illegal to bury a body without a casket, letting it decompose at its natural rate. Stupid law, I think, as most caskets will eventually decompose anyway. Anyway, the point is that cremation is the cheapest, most efficient method of cadaver disposal that is widely available. My loved ones don't have to spend tons of money on a casket I'll never see in order to prove that they loved me. It's a strike against the uber-capitalists, not one for Hinduism.

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Will, said, “Bill, you say the religious views of American citizens are changing? So? The Gospel of Christ remains the same.”

What gospel of Christ is that? I must have missed that one. Jesus never wrote a word of the bible.

Will, your 6:45am post today sounds delusional. What are you talking about? - winning, losing?

And the church of god is flawless, loving and caring? We must be reading different bibles. Your god boasts of being jealous and angry and likes the smell of burnt meat.

Will, said, “Susan, IF some Sunday School teacher told your child she was going to hell for lying, that "teacher" was certainly not promoting the Gospel.

Here we go, again. Some one is giving their opinion what the gospels say. Just another part of the 33,000 sects of Xs

Preacher DJ,” There is one definition, not many. Like a room full of mirrors, only one image is the real thing. Everyone else is just using the word for their own purposes.

Now he knows the real gospel and the real meaning. I’ll give you some more tomorrow, DJ.

Preacher DJ posted, “Bill's statement that "most Americans, by far, still are Christian (however they would define that)" indicates something of what the article is saying.
BUT,…the X numbers is shrinking and nonreligious is growing. Another 100 yrs and it will be the other way…with a new X interpretation. It is morphing now.

Will, your post to Susan, - you continue to twist it to say what you want it to say. Kansas City Shuffle.

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

adam harrison

Iggy says that "Jesus says things that may be questionable."

Well, so do you, sport, but what I want to know, since you don't believe in truth and are a Moral Relativist, who are you to say what Jesus says is questionable?

After all, we know you have said some "questionable" things. LOL!

adam harrison

So, Cole Morgan, I see now THERE WAS NO BIBLE STUDY last night!

AND I understand now why you don't give notice of more than an hour...you realize the study may be cancelled but you want us all to show up out there anyway!

With only fouty five minutes or an hour there won't be time for us to call the church and see if the study is STILL ON!

Because the answering machines will be on!

And you KNOW THAT!

NOW WE GET IT! Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...you sniveler.

Susan

Will, of course I tell my children about the Gospell! That Jesus died to save the world is the most wonderful news in the world. I simply believe, like many of the church's early fathers did prior to the 6th century, that Christ's work on the cross was ACTUALLY SUFFICIENT to accomplish what it set out to accomplish -- the salvation of the whole world, both believing and unbelieving.

If I can love my own children, and keep my heart and life open and welcoming to them, reGARDless of what they believe, and even regardless of what they happen to think about me at any given time -- well, then, God is ever so much more loving and forgiving than I am. So I have no trouble at all believing that God's love is greater than man's lack of faith.

It honestly doesn't feel like "good news" to me to think that the majority of the world's population is headed straight for hell because they don't believe the right stuff. Good news is a God Who's secure enough in His own identity, that He can love and take in even those who don't acknowledge Him.

And Will/adamh, in real life are you continuously going on about gulags and abortion, and telling anyone who thinks differently from you, "I know what you'd do to me if I got the chance!"? Well, in real life, at the freethinkers meetings we've been a part of thus far, there's no talk of anyone being "delusional." I did hear a fun story about Cole's cat. And had a chat with a couple who got interested in the fact that my youngest just wants everyone to call her "Baby" right now -- they said their son went through a phase of wanting to be called something other than his name, too.

It's just a normal, friendly, gathering of people. Whereas most of us who come here to comment on Bill's blog are eager for debate, I think we're aware that "most" people really aren't so much into argument ... that's why we come here to argue, LOL, to get it out of our system so we can be nice the rest of the time.

Susan

But about the Hindu thing, Bill: I suppose Christians like me with Universalist leanings can get misunderstood as thinking there are "many paths" -- simply because we believe Christ's work on the cross is sufficient to save everyone whatever they believe.

So it's possible that the Christian world is coming full circle -- and returning to the belief in God as Savior of the whole world, a belief that was very strong in early Christianity, but got stamped out in the 6th century.

I think it got stamped out because the men in control of the religion at that time, believed like some people still do today, that without fear of punishment people would just have a big free-for-all, recklessly doing whatever they felt without regard for others.

But now that psychologists like Alfie Kohn have been drawing upon the most current research, which shows that rewards and punsishments ACTUALLY INTERFERE with the development of morality and empathy, I think this knowledge is gradually transforming the Christian Church as well as the rest of society.

We are learning a new view of human nature: the idea that children come into this world with an innate desire for positive, cooperative relationships with others -- they just need help learning to communicate and navigate the world, so they'll learn they can meet their own needs and also have empathy for others -- and that developing empathy and cooperating with others is actually the best way to meet everyone's needs. (Continued)

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Like a room full of mirrors, only one image is the real thing.
Posted by: PreacherDJ | August 31, 2009 at 09:55 AM

PreacherDJ,

Are you delusional or you just had a slip of your mind? OK, which image out of 100 mirrors will be the "real one?" Or you are implying "the object" standing in front of the mirror will be the only "real thing? Boy, you just shot yourself in the foot and your god in the brain!
__________________
Christian troll wrote>>>>>>>>I don't care about a study where three or four people show. I want to see the one TONIGHT where 40 or more show!

Well, aren't you "not demanding" - you don't care about a Bible study which is less than 40 people? Maybe you need to go on a dbating tour with Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, and Dawkins? - why aren't you?

Call a local newspaper, radio stations and TV stations - tell them you are challenging atheists and looking for a bible study of 40 people or more? They may help you? How about a study at your church? - maybe it is 40 people?

I have no idea how many people will show up for any Bible study. I was interested in the Bible Study itself "not" how many people show up. I see a bible study on their site and go to it.

This particular Monday (today's) 7 p.m. deals with a chapter in NT which skipped last week 10 out of 23 verses and tonight at 7 p.m. they will finish the chapter's remaining verses "without" skipping any. I am interested and intrigued. I have no idea how many people showed up last week (I did not attend) and how many are showing up tonight and it really doesn't matter to me.

If it matters to you Christain trolls for the sake of numbers, find a study on your own that will have 40 people and let us know.

Tonight 7 p.m. study (60 min notice) - if you show up for it, then next week it will be put on the calendar. If you don't show up for it, it will not be put on the calendar of KCFreeThinkers.org site.

Tomorrow 7:30 p.m. study at Bethany Lutheran Church in Overland Park - finishing up Joshua. Show up or not, I don't care. I know at least 3 of atheists will be there tomorrow night. With or without you the study will go on.

You seem to be obsessed with the "size" of the Bible Study, Christian troll.

It's not the "size" that matters :o)

Susan

(Continued) As more and more parents are moving away from punishment and learning about Gentle Discipline, this is changing how they view not only their own children -- but other people as well.

For instance, on the mothering forum I'm part of (which promotes Gentle Discipline) -- when we get into discussions about crime and punishment, many of us are in a quandary about our society's current practice of imprisoning criminals and having them serve time, because we don't see this as effective. At the same time, we agree that some people are so damaged and lacking in conscience, it's not safe to let them out. So what do we do?

It's so much easier to just do better with the newer generations, than to try to heal hardened criminals. Not that the hardened criminals don't have human worth -- they do, it's just really hard to know what to do with them. But I believe God has an eternity to work with them and help them move into the truth, however long it takes. And of course there are people today selflessly pouring themselves into the lives of prisoners -- and I believe this investment will someday bring a return.

But back to what I was saying about the changing view of human nature: the more we learn what people are really like, the less afraid we'll be of letting go of the fear of hell. We'll learn that when people learn there actually IS a path of love, joy, and cooperation with others -- they will usually choose this path because it's more fun than a path of selfishness and going after what they want at the expense of others.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Christian troll adamh wrote>>>>>>>
I don't care about a study where three or four people show. I want to see the one TONIGHT where 40 or more show!

Wow! a "demand" for 40+ people at a Bible Study where they will "put up a show" and show these atheists how to debate. Great! Let's have them find a study of 40 people+ and let us know where. We'll come!

The number "40" "NEVER" came up from the "Christian trolls" till today - please, mark your calendars with August 31st. All there has been the Christian trolls will put up a show and they need a 24 hour notice to arrange for rides.

Well, there is a 24 hour notice - Bethany Lutheran Church. Some atheists are planning on coming there tomorrow Tuesday 7:30 p.m. This is the "exact" Bible study the Christian trolls were wanting to get in last week "without" any "preconditions" of the size of the Bible study - NOW THE MAGIC NUMBER 40 came up. We did not know how many people were going to show up - we never do and it's irrelevant. If the trolls want 40+ people then it's up to them to find a bible study with 40+ people and let us know. We are perectly happy with "whatever" Yahwheh and Jesus send our way - 3-4 people, 10, 20, 30, 40, 100? at a Bible study?

The goal posts of the Christian trolls have moved - today is the day when we "witneessed" evolution of the trolls into a new "delusional" dimension... What is staying absolute is the "truth" - trolls can come to any Bible studies announced with address and for the new Bible studies they will get a 60 minute notice of the address. Tough cookies if they don't want to come because they "all of a sudden" today come up with 40 attendees of the Bible study! :o) - wow! Nice.

Where and when did the number 40 come up? NEVER EVER BEFORE TODAY August 31, 2009. What is happening is the "witnessing" of the "Christian moral relativistism" of our own blog grown crazy Christian trolls at work :o) - even god cannot help them now, only Hannibal Lector with new brain.

The studies will go on or not (if canceled by the Bible study leader or minister) without them or with them. With under 40 people or with more than 40 people. Only god knows how many people will show up. Christian trolls want us atheists to know the mind of their god? - silly, they don't know it themselves, how are we supposed to know?

If it is canceled, we can just invite the crazy Christian trolls for a beer at a local restaurant and have a good time chatting anyway. I am sure god will not have a problem with us drinking up our "no bible study with 40+ people" sorrow?

Susan

By the way, Will -- what is your beef with Charles Darwin? He fought against God and God won?

He reported his discoveries, after observing the life on the Galapagos Islands and spending considerable time studying his observations.

Should he have kept it all to himself and crawled under a rock or something? Surely God is big enough to survive us learning more about how our species came to be!

And it's true that Evolution doesn't explain how everything got started -- it has never even claimed to do that! Evolution is a theory about how the species evolved. Many Christians don't see Evolutionary theory as a theory that declares war on God -- and Carl Drews (who has a Theistic Evolution site) has pointed out that it doesn't involve giving up the creation story -- it just involves reading it as allegory rather than as a literal report (i.e. each day representing thousands or millions of years).

Do you just not like Darwin because he died an Agnostic?

Here's a link to Carl Drews's site --

http://www.theistic-evolution.com/

Dolores Lear

Susan:
"Will, of course I tell my children about the Gospel! That Jesus died to save the world is the most wonderful news in the world. - It honestly doesn't feel like "good news" to me to think that the majority of the world's population is headed straight for hell because they don't believe the right stuff."

The Majority of the World's Population, is Religious. Are they heading 'straight for hell', with the Judgment Day Planetary Fire, that the Humans that Love Jesus are setting up on our Planet Earth Space Base, with Toxic Pollution and Nuclear Bombs?

Was that Jesus' message in the Bible while he was Alive, before he went up and out into Space Alive in a Physical Body? Today we Know the Supernatural Human Way to go out into Space Alive is in a Spaceship.

The Good News Message Jesus proclaimed and Practiced, as the Kingdom of God, was Male Celibacy and Equal Sharing of the Resources in this Life. It did not have anything to do with Equal Life After Death in Heaven.

Jesus did say he would come back to Earth, to take an Alive Group to 'Heaven', which is another Planet being prepared for them, as 'in the beginning'.

Most Monks and Nuns are Celibate and Share Equally of the Resources, so this Celibate Knowledge is not obsolete, and was on Earth before Jesus.

The Father of Life on Earth, God/Us in our Human Image, were Human Asexual Male and Female Clone Helpmeets.

Humans do need a High Tech Translation of All Scripture and Myth, before we blow up our Home Planet.

God/Us High Tech Peace Humans do not Kill. They have Eternal Physical Life After Birth, on Planets and in Spaceships.

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