Ramadan's changing times: 8-18-09
Birthing three theologians: 8-20-09

Young Catholics today: 8-19-09

Young Catholics

Almost every faith community worries at least a little about how to find ways to engage young people and attract (or keep) them as members.

My friend Tom Roberts of the National Catholic Reporter has been wandering the country this year talking with lots of people about what the emerging Catholic Church looks like. In this report, he focuses on the church's effort to hold on to younger members. (The link I've given you also will take you to previously published parts of Tom's series. The photo here today, by the way, shows Pope Benedict XVI speaking to young Catholics in Yonkers, N.Y., on his trip to the U.S. last year.)

Tom draws on some of the concepts inherent in the "Emergent Church Movement," about which I've written several times and he seeks to see how that movement is relevant to Catholicism today. One characteristic of the Emergent (or Emerging) Church Movement that seems fairly widespread is the idea that one should seek to follow Jesus and not worry so much about what the institutional church looks like.

That, as you might imagine, is a bit more difficult a concept to live out in the Catholic Church with its hierarchical polity. But many of the young people to whom Tom spoke seem to be finding ways to accomplish that. That is, they seem to be focused on a healthy parish life and how they fit into that rather than being consumed by all the controversial issues burning within the church.

In some ways, I think we Christians make church too complicated. Most people simply want reasons to hope and a place in which to do that with encouragement from other people. At its best, the church provides exactly that. At its worst, it distracts people from hope and from being present with others who need help and hope.

* * *

GOD, R U LISTENING?

Well, it's happened. You now can send a Tweet to God on Twitter. A Tel Aviv resident will print out your Tweets and take them to the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Sort of makes you wonder what might be wrong with bowing your head and praying directly to God. Well, maybe high-tech prayers intrigue the Almighty.

Comments

Will Graham

Cole Morgan pretends that we should believe:

"We get better."

"We must be doing something right."

And the punch line. "WE NOW LIVE IN THE BEST OF TIMES."

And yet we now accept methods of control and elimination of human life...from abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, and war...that would have embarrassed even the old Greek boy loving Philosophers.

Secular governments, many officially atheistic, killed over 100 million people in the past century alone, more that in all the wars in human history, from whatever cause.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

And government techniques of surveillance and control dwarf the wildest dreaams of even propagandists like Dr. Goebbells, propagnada minister of the Third Reich.

Pope Paul II decribed our culture as a Culture of death, relying on murder of whoever gets in the way...whether the unborn, the burdensome, the sick, or our politial oppositon...to solve our problems.

"WE LIVE IN THE BEST OF TIMES.", and yet secular scientists continue to provide wmds...nuclear, chemical, and biological...on a scale that could not only eliminate most human life (if not all of it) and render the earth uninhabitable for MILLENIA to any govenment with the means.

The scientists can provide the means for destruction, and yet they can provide no ethical base to control it.

"WE LIVE IN THE BEST OF TIMES".

One of the most ignorant statements to come from the atheist propagandists yet.

Will Graham

Speaking of young people, the New Atheists don't think they should be taught religion by their parents at all. If they had the means, they would almost certainly take control of this aspect of life.

But this does not stop THEM from wantting to "educate" children on their own terms. They even maintain ATHEISM CAMPS, and Richard Dawkins pushes them on his site.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3UXl0oMYPLs/SkoaGocVdcI/AAAAAAAAAI8/b4IjayaQR7k/s1600-h/atheism-camp.jpg

Will Graham

Of course Cole thinks that because there are more people, we are better.

This also means that the Secular Scientists will be able to kill more people at one swipe when they get the chance; and you can try to laugh that off, but the CONTINUE PREPARING FOR IT at unprecedented rates.

More proof that "WE LIVE IN THE BEST OF TIMES."

http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/

Its still going on, just under a different name.

Dolores Lear

Church attendance for Children and Teens, depends on the Materialism of their Generation.

Each generation before 1900 had more or less the same Lifestyle. Most homes had a garden and fruit trees.

Religion was a natural part of the Society. Then came WW1 and 2, and a new Generation began with a High Tech Prosperity, and Church membership began a decline.

With the Population Explosion, and Prosperity, a Middle Class was born. Many New Mega Churches, and Religious Organizations began.

Flesh Lusts and Materialism also increased, people needed God less for their existence, and most religions are decreasing.

http://pewforum.org/news/rss.php?NewsID=17638

The Population Explosion Lifestyle today of Fornication as normal for Adults, has become Normal for Teens, which includes problem drinking and drugs, in and out of College.

The Hippy Generation was a prelude to the present Teen Generation, that grew up with Fornication, Drinking, and Divorce on Soap Operas and in Life, as normal.

The past 5 years or so did have a Teen Virgin Movement in High School, but by College it decreased.

So how can this Lust Lifestyle, for Adults and Teens, be compatible with Religion and Puritan Religious teachings? The Human Cycles of into the third and fourth birth generations of those that Love the World more than God, does diminish Religious members.

But in a High Tech 100 Year Four Generations, like the Noah/Atlantis Society had, it took a major catastrophe like the High Tech Planetary Flood to change the Lifestyle on a Planet. A few Humans were saved.

Repopulation of the Planet resulted. The Past 100 Year Four Human Generation Humans, have set up our Planet Home, for the High Tech Planetary Judgment Day Fire.

All this Past Generation HIstory is in the Christian Bible, and Myth.

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Okay Will. Get rid of your computer and every other modern device and live of yesteryear. Ride a smelly horse and till the soil. Only pray and never see a doctor and see where this gets you. But you won’t, will you? You just like to belly ache. You are so doom and gloom. You have been brainwashed. Look at the bright side of life for a change.

Will said, “Speaking of young people, the New Atheists don't think they should be taught religion by their parents at all. If they had the means, they would almost certainly take control of this aspect of life.

Stupid is as stupid does. Yeah, lets just keep teaching children make believe instead of standing on their own. Bowing your head to nothing is nothing. Get it?

Will said, “This also means that the Secular Scientists will be able to kill more people at one swipe when they get the chance; and you can try to laugh that off, but the CONTINUE PREPARING FOR IT at unprecedented rates.”

Why do you make up crap?

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Want to know how to make the church attract the youth? Ask Jesus. I’m sure he will answer.

I wonder if anyone truly looks – studies – photos like this. I mean, a full grown man dressed like this, in a time like this, acting like this. Jesus-like, huh? Makes you wonder why these people are smiling. Are they making fun or what? If it is “What?” then some people need a reality check, I think.

These controversial issues burning within the church, I believe, is nothing to make light of- I’m concerned what they will do in the voting box. This often determines how people will live their life – happy or not> People shouldn’t have this kind of control or be taught to think like this.

Bill said, “Most people simply want reasons to hope and a place in which to do that with encouragement from other people.”

To bad people can’t formulate their own opinions to be kind to others. Does it matter what others think, what god you follow? – if any? Get a life people. Grow up and live in the real world.

GOD, R U LISTENING?

Get real. We live in the real, natural world. Some day all will have their own life and stop with superstition.

Peace For the sake of Goodness Cole

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Bill Tammeus wrote>>>>>>>.One characteristic of the Emergent (or Emerging) Church Movement that seems fairly widespread is the idea that one should seek to follow Jesus and not worry so much about what the institutional church looks like.

Bill,

My GAWD! Your sentence makes really no sense. "Follow Jesus?" - you cannot follow Jesus. He is not here to follow. He DID NOT LEAVE A SINGLE SENTENCE WRITTEN BY HIM.

Follow him how? In a Baptist's way "by faith"? Or in the way of "works?" Or in "Faith without works is dead?" Follow Jesus' alledged words "not a single iota of the laws of the prophets/ Old Testament is to be changed as he has come to "implement" them?" Some Christians believe in "no hell" - like the Christians Church I visited with last week. John Shelby Spong and Episcopalians offer yet another version of Christianity. Lutherans (read KCStar from a couple of days ago) are also talking about accepting gays in service yet it is an abomination in Leviticus as well as eating shell fish, wearing pants for women as one of the guys at the recent Bible Study said.

Christians will NEVER agree on what is the right way to "follow" Jesus - becasue as "moral relativistic" mammalian animals they do just that - "follow" a particular herd/troop mentality of their paritucal "mroally relativistic" group.

I don't know what to tell you Bill, but I think you need to be more intelletualy honest about this - THERE IS NO TRUTH IN JESUS ANY MORE THAN JESUS WAS CLAIMING THERE WAS TRUTH IN HIS HEAVENLY FATHER through his own contradictory statments in the Gospels.

This admission of course, will enrage the "crazy" and "righteous" Christians. Cole and I were talking recently and agreed this should give you enough material to write another book. I wonder if your blog can be a "breeding ground" for yet another volume? Care to share your plans. You have my permsision to use any of my posts here :o)

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Bill Tammeus wrote>>>>>>>>.Well, it's happened. You now can send a Tweet to God on Twitter. A Tel Aviv resident will print out your Tweets and take them to the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Sort of makes you wonder what might be wrong with bowing your head and praying directly to God. Well, maybe high-tech prayers intrigue the Almighty.

The guy is wasting paper! He should get a laptop or blackberry and bring his prayers in electronic format to the wall. The battery should last 2-3 hours minimum and he'd relate the prayers in the same "non working' way as if he had them on paper.

Or better yet, connect via live streaming "web cam" - http://english.thekotel.org/cameras.asp (wait till it loads) - save time, efforts, paper and pray right there.

Prayers are not working anyway, so what difference does it make where they are not being heard? - in his home or at the wall?
____________________________________
From a Distant Comet, a Clue to Life

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By KENNETH CHANG
Published: August 18, 2009

For the first time, a building block of proteins — and hence of life as we know it — has been found in a comet.

That adds to the prevailing notion that many of the ingredients for the origin of life showered down on the early Earth when asteroids (interplanetary rocks orbiting the inner solar system) and comets (dirty ice balls that generally congregate in the outer solar system beyond Neptune) made impact with the planet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/science/space/19comet.html

Lynne - www.kcfreethinkers.org

Will, Obviously "the best of times" does not mean best we could ever hope to have. It means the best they have ever been and to deny this means you are completely ignorant of history. Let's count the ways that modern times are better than the past:

1- Democracy. Yes, they had it in ancient Athens, but it's been perfected since then.

2- The concept of human rights. Sure there are violations, but that's still a step up from the idea that a leader has ultimate power and the right to do with his people as he pleases.

3- Classifying certain actions as "war crimes" or "genocide" as wrong. Sure, they still happen. But you can't combat wrong-doing until you first RECOGNIZE that it is wrong. It used to be that people literally did believe that "all's fair in...war" - now we have rules to war. They get broken sure, but occasionally perpetrators do get punished for it.

4- The abolition of institutional slavery. Sure there are pockets of slavery here and there but there is no culture that legalizes it or openly advocates it today.

5- Vast improvement in women's rights in many parts of the world. Still needs work all over the world, but to deny there have been ANY improvements would be insane. Same could be said for race relations as well.

6- Longer lifespan due to improvements in nutrition, sanitation and medical care.

7- INDOOR PLUMBING! Are you kidding me? Do you really want to go back to using a whole in the ground?

8- Improvements in mental health care. Granted, much of what passes for mental health care today is still barbaric quackery. But if you look at the history you'll see it was even worse in the past. Victims of mental illness were punished instead of helped! Until one day an asylum worker noticed that there were slight improvements to patients once you treated them KINDLY! It seems like common sense now but it was REVOLUTIONARY thinking at one time.

9 - Mass Communication - including...*drum roll, please*....THE INTERNET! Without it, you wouldn't be able to complain to such a large and geographically spread-out audience, Will!

So, Will, if these are NOT the best of times, which period in history would you prefer to go back to? I would be very curious to know!

Susan

Bill, I do find the Catholic Church rather fascinating. So much tradition, yet so much room to hold divergent views and still be a part.

While reading the article on the Emerging Church, I found myself wondering who Derrida was, so I looked him up and then learned a bit about deconstructionism. It seems to at least partly involve finding the contradictions in stuff, and realizing there are many possible interpretations to what you read.

I've been thinking a lot about this (differing interpretations) lately. I've been talking here a lot about the possible directions people can go when they uphold the whole Bible as God's inerrant Word, and try to mold their life to it. I recently learned about another line-of-thought that seems to also be based on Biblical inerrancy.

There is some site called Sex in Christ that, well, almost seems to be pulling your leg -- cause some of the stuff they say, has you thinking "No one could really think that" -- but then they are so careful to explain their reasoning, basing it on Scripture. I.e., they believe that when Jesus told the woman at the well to go call her husband, it was so he could teach her how to perform oral sex on her husband and drink his "living water" as a symbolic act of drinking God's living water (they liken this to taking communion in remembrance of Christ's sacrifice).

They also believe that the Bible has different sexual standards for men and women (no, duh!) -- but whereas I think these differing standards were based on the ancient male perspective, the Sex in Christ people think they are applicable today. They say male homosexuality is forbidden -- but lesbianism is fine so long as both husbands are okay with it. And they say the Bible defines adultery as a man having sex with another man's wife -- not as a man having sex with an unmarried woman -- but again the wife has to be okay about it.

Lynne - www.kcfreethinkers.org

hey all, check out http://www.thegreatflu.com - It's a game, but it's more than a game. Your job is to stop the spread of a potential pandemic. You choose your disease - different diseases have different difficulty levels - and you get a budget with various options on how to spend that money to stop the spread of the disease. It is NOT easy!

Susan

Lynne wrote, "So, Will, if these are NOT the best of times, which period in history would you prefer to go back to? I would be very curious to know!"

That makes two of us, Lynne. It was no end of shocking to me, a while back, to hear adamh or Will say that we're no freer today than the ancient Israelites were. Also, I don't get their continuous assumption that rejoicing over the positives of our secular society, is tantamount to "glorifying" it.

As Lynne just said, "Will, Obviously 'the best of times' does not mean best we could ever hope to have." To say that things are much improved for the vast majority of people today, isn't the same as saying that we've acheived perfection and can now just sit back and bask in our "glory."

Also, for people like me who believe God is always working in, with, and through us, talking about all our accomplishments doesn't exclude God. We're part of Him and He's part of us. To me, talking about the wonders of science ISN'T the same as "putting my trust in man" -- and yet, maybe I AM putting my trust in man in that I trust in the God who dwells in all of us.

People fail each other all the time, but as Cole says we keep learning and getting better. We can think positively and still keep finding ways to improve. What a concept! But I realize I differ from many conservative Christians in that I see the overall direction of humanity as GETTING BETTER, whereas they see humanity as going downhill. (Continued)

Susan

(Continued) For instance, I think many conservative Christians will reject opportunites to dialog with people who have all different veiws regarding abortion. Many of them won't see it as a "positive" if the RH Reality Check -- "Common Ground" website can be a catalyst for solutions that end up significantly reducing abortions.

I think the most staunch pro-Lifers would honestly be upset if we started having significantly fewer unwanted pregnancies, and better supports for single mothers who want to carry their babies to term -- because they know that if abortion becomes extremely rare while remaining legal, lots of people who now want to see it illegalized will no longer see it as necessary to interfere with the law.

As everyone's probably noticed, adamh/Will periodically report the numbers -- how many abortions since Roe vs. Wade up to today, and how many babies are getting aborted daily, plus they've reported how many late-term abortions were being performed daily in George Tiller's clinic. They need the numbers to stay up to make their point.

You guys can correct me if I'm reading you wrong -- but, with regard to abortion and divorce, I don't think you seriously want to see things start getting better at the moment: I actually think you want to see them get worse 'til more people agree with you that there's a need for a major overhaul of the current laws regarding these two issues. I'm not going to claim (as you do when you accuse me of stuff) that I know this "for sure" about you -- this is just my 2 cents and I could be wrong. You're certainly free to set me straight.

Dolores Lear

Iggy referral:
"For the first time, a building block of proteins — and hence of life as we know it — has been found in a comet. -
As for our solar system, meteorite data show that amino acids are present in its inner neighborhood, where asteroids orbit, but until now nothing has been known for certain about what might have formed farther out, where comets gather."

Me:
Genesis, a Human record, accepted, does have High Tech Science Knowledge, Translated as Supernatural by Natural Humans without High Tech Knowledge.

Religious Writings, and the Myth of High Tech Atlantis, etc., have Supernatural/High Tech Knowledge.

Science, has Solved the Mysteries of the the Universe Elements, Visible and Invisible, that make Life as we Know it.

The Source of these Elements of LIFE is not known. No Human God, in our Human Image, could make these Elements. High Tech should be used to Solve these Mysteries.

Humans in God's Image can fly up in the air and out into Space. Humans can Reproduce a Human Fetus in the Lab, but so far have not reproduce a Human without Body Birth, like God did in Genesis.

Human Energy, and Resources on Earth, are used for Evil Pollution, and Killing Each Other and our Home Base Planet, with our High Tech. Why not use our Resources for Good High Tech Eternal Physical Life After Birth?

What Good does it do for Earth, to keep counting the Members of Religious Organizations, and then Killing Members of Religious Organizations, and All Life?

What happened to God telling Humans to Share the Earth's Resources, and Take Care of All Life Species on Earth, and our Home Planet?

Is this what Religion teaches? Or, are we taught as a Child, to Worship Gods in our Image, and build Pagan Temples to these Earth Gods?

Susan

Correction: I'd said the Sex in Christ people said homosexuality was forbidden, but I think they were just talking about male-male sexual acts. In their question and answer section, a gay man wrote in saying that he and his boyfriend drank one another's semen -- but didn't engage in oral sex because they thought it was unScriptural. And the Sex in Christ people were affirming the men's decision to keep drinking it.

It seems rather weird -- but, then, it's also weird to make a woman drink a nasty drink to prove her faithfulness to her husband. And it's weird to be so obsessed with female virginity that you'd have your new bride stoned for not bleeding on your wedding night. And weird to be so intent on getting a bride-price that you'd consider marrying your daughter off to her rapist. And VERY weird to think adultery was just about one man using another man's property. And so on.

Again, I am seriously not making fun of Bronze Age people. Just as I'm not making fun of a 2yo for thinking a new kitten is like a toy that she can handle however she wants. I'd rescue the kitten of course -- but I'm certainly not faulting a 2yo, or calling her stupid or evil -- because she hasn't learned empathy yet. It's our job to talk to children and help them see that other living creatures feel pain just as they do.

Bronze Age men were starting to develop empathy for other men -- and I think it's natural to first identify with those most similar to you. Between the Bronze Age and today, men have made monumental progress (with women's assistance) in learning to empathize with women and accept us as their fellow human beings, worthy of the same human rights men are. (Continued)

Susan

(Continued) So ... I don't disparage children for being children, and I don't disparage Bronze Age men for being Bronze Age men.

But of course an adult has a problem if she developed an understanding a long time ago that kittens feel pain just as she does -- but because of reading a Bronze Age writing saying that you have to torment kittens to be "raising cats God's way," she suddenly decides that to be godly she needs to start hurting her cats.

And I don't make fun of Bronze Age men for believing Paul when he said woman was deceived into sin, so therefore women need to be limited in their roles in the church. But when I hear some preachers TODAY preaching about how The Fall proves women are more easily deceived and that's why men need to be the primary leaders, this feels like a very oppressive attitude, given how people today have seen just how capable women really are.

Jesus said you pour new wine into new wineskins, because the old ones have lost their elasticity and will crack when the new wine expands. To me, Biblical inerrancy looks like an attempt to harden up the church's wineskins. I'm not saying all inerrantists are trying to do this -- but I suspect some of the orchestrators of the movement are very comfortable with the status quo, and are doing all they can to suppress change for as long as they can.

adam harrison

Cole wants to claim some of the benefits of technology, while hiding his head in the sand about the evil that science has made possible and perpetuated.

When the role of science in continuing to provide weapons of mass destruction he simply says "Why do you make up crap."

Unfortunately, its not made up.

http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/ethics/issues/scientific/simons_only-question-time.htm

Cole does not even seem to recognize that science provides no basis for ethics, and that the question of what we CAN produce is not the same as the question of what we SHOULD produce.

He just blithely pushes the problem aside and says "We live in the best of times", even though it is shown to him that in the past century alone more people were murdered by governments than in all of human history.

And the power of governments to do this is increasing at the same rate as our technological advance.

Cole, your ignorance, in fact WILLFUL INGNORANCE, is showing.

adam harrison

Lynne comes to the ignorant Cole's defense, by properly "interpreting" what he REALLY MEANT by "We live in the best of times." LOL!

In this vein, she cites,

1. Democracy, apparently unaware of the fact that Cole was trashing democracy in favor of "republic" just yesterday, because democracy allowded to mob...like Christians...to participate.

2. Human rights; she apparently really believes that governments don't still have massive power over our lives.

3. War crimes and genocide; she admits they still happen but claims we are superior because we don't recognize them.

NO, we don't. 45,000,000 have been murdered since Roe v Wade, over half of them minorites...amounting to Black Genocide. But she will not recognize this.

4. Slavery is still with us. We just call it something else.

5. Women's rights and race relations; in some areas gain, in some areas loss...women are devalued for the "meat market" generated by media exploiters.

6. Longer lifespan? For some. For now, but not for those murdered by the governments she praise. And when the 200,000 murdered by medical malpractice, pharmaceutical errors, hospital errors, and the like are mentioned, though, she will deny it.

7. Indoor plumbing? The Egyptians and Romans had it. But I guess it was worth 100 million dead...oh, and that does not count the 45,000,000 murdered since Roe v. Wade.

8. Mental health care? Tremendous advance in drugging people; officially atheistic governments made good use of it. And with the techinques of control being developed, totalitarian rule will be made dictators of the past look like amateurs.

Same with communications; government will be able to maintain surveillance and control at UNPRECEDENTED levels.

There aren't going to be any "best times".

adam harrison

Susan you claim to be shocked...SHOCKED...when I pointed out that we are no more free than people of the past in many ways. YOU continue to pretend like you don't know the 6,000 laws controlling our lives (actually the Master Debater says it is more like 10,000) control every aspect of successful participation in this society...and many of them can ruin your life in you violate them. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Of course, to a stay at home mom with no academic or financial resonsipilities, with plenty of time to spam religious blogs, thsi might not be apparent.

And Susan, you asked us to correct you if you are wrong when you claimed that we don't want to see the situation with abortion and divorce get better.

You are corrected, and your libelous remarks that we would prefer to see murder continue...killing a viable fetus is murder...to make a point is a vicious lie.

But so what? You are a MORAL RELATIVIST, and citing Derride fits right in with your idea of many interpretations of anything being possible.

But you seem to fail to understand that your view of "interpretation" is self refuting, because if virtually any interpretation is possible...and who are you to say it is not...then I can choose to interpret your words to mean that you are really an atheist and have really meant something else by all your posts here.

In fact, when you refer to "Bronze Age People" you really mean the JEWS and are making anti semitic remarks!

Anyway, thats my "intepretation"! Bahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

adam harrison

Susan, that "Sex in Christ" stuff from "some website" and "drinking semen" is just SPAM meant to marginalize believers through ridicule, like your buddies Cold and Iggy do.

What you are doing is nothing more than trolling.

But so what? As a Moral Relativist, if you "feel it with your whole being" I guess thats what counts.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Susan,

"John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" brings a totally different angle then on drinking semen by men or women in a consentual relationship - it is Jesus' living water - makes sense. Semen does "flow" out of belly - well, kind of... but if you could move mountains with a faith as small as musteard seed, why not drink men's semen as living waters?

So, Jesus wanted to have a show and tell done? I think this is what any god needs to do - to be open about our sexuality.

If a Christian wants to drink someone else's sperm, I have no problem with that if this is concentual. Even if it is not, when the person who doesn't give concent but leaves a cup with his sperm where the other person can drink it - who knows, he did not give concent but he could have given it if he was asked? Did anyone ask him for "no concent"? If there was no "no concent" then the sperm can be drunk - we cannot disprove the negative.

Unless the person drikingin Jesus' living waters is accused of stealing I don't think this is an issue at all, especially if someone leaves it in a public area, e.g. or if it's a partner and just left some sperm in a cup for his own future consumption - a simple misunderstanding may happen, but for gawd's sake - it's just the "living water" and what can be wrong with drinking "the living water"?

I can only imagine what kind of concentual behavior Jesus and Mary had - what's wrong with that between concenting adults if they give each other permission to treat them how they would like to be treated?

I don't even have a problem with Jesus being gay - he never said a word about gays - he must have had no problem with them. Otheriwise he would have said something. Why disprove something that Jesus did not talk about?

Sounds like the Golden Rule to me and Jesus promoted it. Jesus got my vote!

Dolores Lear

Susan:
"...for people like me who believe God is always working in, with, and through us, - and yet, maybe I AM putting my trust in man in that I trust in the God who dwells in all of us."

http://www.bing.com/search?q=God+dwells+in+all+of+us&first=1&FORM=PERE

Me:
Exactly what does Religion mean, that God, or the Spirit of God dwells in all of us?

Do we Know with our High Tech Science, what this is called when a Human become Alive at Birth? Our Breath means we are Alive. Is our Breath the Spirit of God, in which we move and have our being? Without our Breath we die.

All Humans get Equal Breath at Birth. Is God Indwelling, some more translation misunderstandings, for Humans without High Tech Science Knowledge?

Like the Supernatural Creation of Life on Earth, is supernatural for Natural Humans but is High Tech Science Colonization of a Planet today.

And the Supernatural Reproduction of a Female from a Male Rib, is High Tech Cloning?

Are the Mysteries of GOD/LIFE being revealed today, with our High Tech, about the Man-Made Natural Humans Religious Gods, in our Image in the Past?

What were our God Given Rights 'in the beginning' of Equality for the Male and Female Helpmeets? Eternal Physical Life After Birth?

Today we do Know this is possible, when we Colonize a Planet with High Tech Human Travel like God/Us in Genesis.

And when we complete our High Tech Knowledge of Reproducing Equal Females from the Male Rib, as it was 'in the beginning'.

But what do we do with our High Tech Science? Make Toxic Pollution and Nuclear Bombs on land and sea? Why?

For the Love of God and our Brothers/Sisters of Life?

adam harrison

Susan, re Iggy's 2:37 post.

Q.E.D.

Congratulations! You got want you wanted.

(By the way, remind me never to drink from anything at an atheist meeting! Bahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Adam, you take numbers and do little magic tricks. So now you are back to misdirection. Puppet shows.

You can make numbers mean anything. Statistically, even with these numbers you come up with, we are better off. You should get help, I think, with your math. You seem so hateful. So stuck in your little world of hating science. Obviously you secretly love science or you wouldn’t keep typing on a keyboard. Get it. The Kansas City Shuffle. Doggie chasing his tail/tale in a world of delusion.

About 300 million people have died in wars from 1900 to 2000. If we kept with the same rate before 1900, that number would be 2 billion.

If you don’t think all these things which have been listed today is not better than before, you need to get out of the box. Step into the real world.

Answer Lynne’s question. What part of history do you want to live in? You are so damn funny Adam, you are creepy. Have any friends?

Susan is correct when she said you guys need enemies and I, too, believe you need things to be bad. If this is so, that is wrong thinking.

Some of you people who like contacting me and scolding me for my choice of friends are strange. And your obsession with going to the bible studies with us is equally strange. I have never invited you. I don’t know why you want to go. I don’t know why you are offended by things I say about religion. Are you insecure about your belief?

Why is it that so many think discussing religion is off limit. It is not. It needs to be discussed.

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

These can keep you busy for awhile:

Strange News
Humans: The Strangest Species
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/080502-strange-humans.html

This a lot of fun. There are more articles at the bottom:

http://www.sexinchrist.com/

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

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