Identifying potential clergy: 8-15/16-09

No doubt partly because I'm currently serving on the Pastor Nominating Committee (PNC) of my church, I've been giving lots of thought lately to how communities of faith raise up leaders, especially people who become members of the clergy.

This is not a new subject for me. I've served on a PNC before and I've served on a committee of our regional Presbyterian governing body that oversees our seminary students.

But I'm not sure local churches do very well in identifying good candidates for ministry and helping them determine whether they might really have a call to ministry.

So I was glad to read about the Fund for Theological Education's upcoming October conference designed to help people identify and draw out clergy leadership.

It should be an excellent opportunity for learning how to get more people thinking about the development and calling of clergy. Besides, any conference at which one of the speakers is Walter Brueggemann, professor emeritus of Old Testament at Columbia Theological Seminary in Georgia, will be worth attending. He's a wonderful scholar and an excellent speaker.

In my experience, the clergy often attracts people I would call "wounded healers," which is to say people who have not resolved lots of things in their own lives and seek to do it while helping others. It's not a good approach to ministry and faith communities often suffer for it.

The difficulty is not just to tell someone like that "no" when she or he wants to become a member of the clergy, it's also to find an appropriate outlet for the person's legitimate desire to help others. A desire to help others is necessary but is far from the only requirement for becoming a member of the clergy. And it may be not even near the top of the list of requirements.

So, as I say, I'm glad the Fund for Theological Education is thinking about all this and trying to help.

* * *

OPEN YOUR BIBLES, CHILDREN

There's another Bible-in-the-classroom fight going on. This one is in Idaho, and if this report is correct, it looks as if the people who run a charter school there are making proper use of the Bible as a teaching tool, meaning they're not using it to promote one or another religion in a public school. There's no reason the Bible can't -- and shouldn't -- be used in public schools as a teaching resource, as long as constitutional barriers are respected.

Comments

[Will Graham]

Bill, one criteria for a pastor should at least be that they believe in God. Former preacher Dan Barker, now the atheist leader of the FFRF and a favorite of local atheist groups, tells un in his new book about how he pastored for some time even when he no longer believed.

At least he finally got out; some, like Bishop Spong, remained in the church even though they were clearly atheists. True "wolves in sheeps cloting".

There are more that a couple pastors like that in our own area.

Who knows? Perhaps they will be "outed".

As to teaching the Bible in school, educators need to remember that there are DOZENS of Supreme Court cases making it clear that just as teachers can not promote religion, NEITHER can they denigrate it.

Attempting to do so has resulted in Civil Judgments against School districts for violation of the constitutional rights of students.

http://www.aclj.org/TrialNotebook/

[Will Graham]

Old Atheists Michael Ruse bashes the New Atheists:

"Why I Think the New Atheists are a Bloody Disaster:
http://blog.beliefnet.com/scienceandthesacred/2009/08/why-i-think-the-new-atheists-are-a-bloody-disaster.html

I love the smell of atheists bashing each other in the morning!

[Dolores Lear]

Red Biddy: Yesterday 5:36 PM.
"You can't think that modern Jews or Christians, for that matter, still believe in the old thunder god of the OT. Religion has evolved since then, for heaven's sake !"

Me:
Training People to be pastors, should include comparing our High Tech Science to Supernatural Scripture and Myth.

Society has evolved since the the Old Testament God. Humans have again return to High Tech Science, through Generation Body Birth, Death, and Rebirth.

With High Tech Spaceships, the thunder of God descending down on a mountain, is some type of spaceship we cannot reproduce as yet, although USA and Russia have shuttles, that take off with a loud noise and smoke, and return to land.

The shuttle projected by Russia, is not a pillar of fire and smoke that the Lord God set down on a Mountain with the Children of Israel, but similar. This Event happened during the Noah/Atlantis High Tech Society.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=pillar+of+fire+and+pillar+of+smoke+in+the+Wilderness&FORM=SOLTDF&pc=SOLTDF&src=IE-SearchBox

The Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth Cycle of Humans, has returned to the High Tech Cycle of the Past. Everything Old is New Again.

http://www.porn-free.org/oldself_newself.htm

With a High Tech Translation, there is many 'supernatural' events in Scripture and Myth that can be explained with our High Tech today.

Especially Cloning a Female from a Male could not be too difficult, to make our Old Sinful Self New Again.

Clergy today need a High Tech Translation of Scripture and Myth, to keep up with our High Tech Changed Human Life Experience.

It is possible for Humans to have Eternal Physical Life, After Birth on Planets and in Spaceships.

[Dolores Lear]

Dolores Lear (??? Still Posting)
Three Atheists No Longer Posting
Two Christians No Longer Posting
Posted by: a.theist | August 14, 2009 at 08:28 PM

Me:

Until I can again be Born a Female Clone of my Celibate Male Clone, I do not have a Category, I am not Christian or Atheist, I am a Child of GOD/LIFE, and I am now a Celibate Female for 35 years, for Jesus. Many Nuns are married to Jesus, in a ceremony.

I now accept Generation Birth, Death and Rebirth on a Body Birth Planet, until Humans again return to High Tech Male and Female Clone Reproduction, as it was, 'in the High Tech beginning' of Equal Human Male and Female Life on Planet Earth

All Life is made from Invisible Atom Elements, and to Invisible Elements we return, at Death. But with an Equal High Tech Society, and with High Tech Regeneration, Humans can Live Forever on Planets and in Spaceships, like the God/Us in Genesis, 'in our Human Image'.

So the Unequal Body Birth Lifestyle on Earth from Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth, will Continue until Misbred Humans Kill themselves and their Home Planet.

This Human Killer Lifestyle, either Evolved on Earth as Earth Science projects, or with a High Tech Science Explanation of Religion and Myth, the Human Peace Lifestyle can be accepted on Earth 'in the beginning'.

It is up to Humans with Free Will which Lifestyle they follow, Perfect High Tech Birth Peace Humans, or Killer Body Birth Humans. It is up to Humans, not their God, to Take Care of the Life on their Home Planet.

Eternal Human Life Form is for the Living Humans, not for Dead Humans in the Spirit AfterLife 'Heaven' Elements.

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

PreacherDJ wrote>>>>> Susan, May I ask you a question? If God directly told you to do something, something that you didn't like, something you found repulsive, something that went completely against your nature, but you knew it was God that told you do it, would you do it?
_____________
PreacherDJ,

I've asked this question many times of Christians - "Would you kill me if god came and asked you to do so?"

Most answer this would never happen - this is not the god they know, god would never ask this of them, god says thou shall not tempt him, this is a silly question, this is a non sensical question.

There was a guy at a Lutheran Bible Study who said he'd do it wihtout any hesitation. I asked him how he'd know it's not Satan talking him into a trick, his medications acting up, he had a delusion? The Lutheran Bible study group I was at was deadly silent at that time. I went around the table, put my hand on his shoulder and looked him in the eyes and told him he needed to come to the church more often to understand that what he just said was totally inappropriate. This many was really shaking when this was happening. There was a retired psychiatrist at the bible study and I asked him what he'd recommend this person do in a normal situation? He hesitated a bit but but I guesss his intellectual honesty got the best of him over god and he said he'd consider this person a mentaly unstable and would have a counceling session with him.

[Dolores Lear]

Bill:
"I've been giving lots of thought lately to how communities of faith raise up leaders, especially people who become members of the clergy."

Me:
The Alpha and Omega is used for many examples. I use it as: the Alpha is the Asexual Celibate Male, and the Omega is the Asexual Celibate Female Clone of the Male. They are One Whole Unit of Equal Birth Humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega

Genesis 1,2,3. does go into a Clone explanation, that could not be understood without High Tech Science. Alpha and Omega can be used for many things.

The Asexual God/Us Clones in Genesis Colonized Earth, and Reproduced Females from the Male Rib, 'in their Image'. Making them One Whole Complete Asexual Human Pair.

Working together they compliment Each Other and are Perfect Helpmeets in All Endeavors of the High Tech Human Species. They are the Ying/Yin and Yang of the Human Species.

With High Tech Regeneration and Space Travel, they do have Eternal Physical Life After Birth, on Planets and in Spaceships.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=ying+and+yang&FORM=SOLTDF&pc=SOLTDF&src=IE-SearchBox

Misbred Body Birth Male and Female Mates, started looking for their Other Half, Ever since they started Reproducing Children, and have not been a Complete Whole for 6000 years.

Complete Helpmeets is not possible in Body Birth Mates, that makes the Male and Female Unequal in Genetic and Physical Form, with Death.

How Life began in Space, where God/Us came from, is not explained in the Christian Bible, but may be recorded in other Scriptures or Myth.

Clergy should accept from their Holy Books, that Life on Earth 'was' Colonized by High Tech Human God/Us Equal Male and Female Clone Helpmeets, in Genesis.

[Susan]

Bill, why can't pastors be working on their own issues? I guess it's for the same reason that pastors and their families try to keep a professional distance between themselves and everyone else in the church.

For several years I was part of a spiritual 12-step program, that was facilitated by a friend in my church. And I wondered if the pastor's wife had been invited -- and my friend said that wouldn't be appropriate, because she couldn't really join in and share about her own issues, or potentially say anything negative about her husband, because of how there needed to be some distance to maintain people's respect.

And I thought that was kind of sad, and I've often felt that I'd never want to be a pastor's wife -- because who wants to go all their life being distant from everyone? If you're in the ministry, the church is your whole circle of friends -- but it's not appropriate for any of them to really KNOW you?

And there's that Southern Baptist minister's wife who killed her husband a few years back: maybe this could have been prevented if she'd had friends she could confide in -- and it also might have helped if she hadn't felt like she was chained for life, in whatever situation it was that was making her so miserable (and maybe it didn't even have anything to do with her husband -- I want to be fair since he's obviously no longer around to defened himself).

[Susan]

From yesterday -- a theist, I noticed that you listed 2 believers/Christians who were no longer posting, and 1 Catholic -- do you not see Catholics as Christians? Wouldn't it be more inclusive, if you want to make a distinction, to just say 2 Protestants and 1 Catholic -- or is being inclusive just not your "thing?" Too politically-correct or something? Or were you just not thinking about it? We all sometimes make oversights, I know.

Also from yesterday -- Red Biddy, you may be right that I didn't answer PreacherDJ's question as to whether I'd obey God, whatever yucky thing He told me to do, if I was sure it was God. I've actually had more thoughts on the matter.

I've been remembering one of the videos that Iggy or Cole linked to, the one about the sacrifice of Isaac, where Abraham is telling God something like, "Yes, Lord, I am totally your bitch! I'll do whatever you tell me to do!" I've been thinking that maybe God doesn't want me to be His bitch -- maybe He wants me to be a thinking partner in our relationship.

After all, I've so often heard our relationship with God compared with a human marriage -- and what man wants to be married to a mindless automaton? So I think God probably wants me to answer back, too.

That said, I've never had the experience of thinking God was telling me to do the unthinkable. And Red Biddy, I agree with you that if I heard voices telling me to do something unthinkable such as murder my child, I'd seek psychiatric help. (Continued)

[Susan]

(Continued) But back to PreacherDJ -- I get the impression that he probably agrees with the Coalition on Revival about the whole Bible being the inerrant Word of God -- so he probably also agrees with them about wifely-submission being mandated by God, so long as the husband isn't giving a command outside of Scriptural parameters.

If this is where PreacherDJ is coming from, then he'd probably say that a Christian wife should KNOW that God is telling her to obey whatever her husband tells her, so long as it doesn't conflict with Scripture.

Well, I've read the whole Bible from cover to cover, and I can tell you that there are many aspects of parenting a child that the Bible is completely silent about. It's totally up to the parents. I can also tell you that many mothers, as they get to know their new babies, will gain insights and develop a strong sense of what is right and what isn't right when it comes to caring for their child. And of course fathers have insights too -- and they are every bit as much parents as mothers are.

I think parenting can work out wonderfully when both mother and father are willing to listen to one another and talk through any disagreements they may have, and read whatever the other is reading with an open attitude. But I've heard about some hellish situations where fathers weren't interested in dialoguing with their wives, and decided it was time to exercise their "God-given" authority to lay down the law about something or other. (Continued)

[adam harrison]

Iggy, when you lived in an officially atheistic government, would you have killed a Christian if the government ordered you to do so?

[Susan]

(Continued) Here's an example that I haven't dealt with personally (I think I need to back off from sharing so much personal stuff) --

On mothering message boards or radio talk shows, mothers will often write/call in distressed because their husbands are pressuring them to create some distance between themselves and their new babies.

I.e., cosleeping may be working out really well for both Mother and Baby -- but Dad wants Baby to start spending the whole night in his crib. Or Dad may be insisting that Mom needs to leave Baby with a sitter before she feels ready to do this, so they can take off for a romantic evening, or even an overnight or weekend, just the two of them.

Now, obviously Dad is having some needs that aren't getting met, and I definitely don't think his needs and feelings should be ignored. But when two people put their heads together and get to the root of the problems they are dealing with, they will usually find numerous possible solutions that don't entail Mom having to put distance between herself and a tiny human who's just spent his first 9 months of life snugly cradled in her body, continuously feeling the vibrations of her hearbeat before he even had ears to hear it.

When people talk and listen to one another, possible solutions abound. But when one person feels entitled to lay down his "law" about how he wants everything to be, communication gets halted and the other person is reduced to either being "obedient" or "disobedient."

Hierarchy tends to put everyone in neat little boxes. We now live in an age where everyone's talking about "getting out of the box." I think it's sad when divorce or murder are the only keys to freedom some women know about. Growing into freedom WITH your loved ones is a lot more fun.

[adam harrison]

By the way, Iggy, wasn't your father a high up in the military? Missle forces or something?

Would he have sent nukes at cities if the government ordered him to do so?

Would you?

[adam harrison]

Red Biddy/Theo has taken issue with Dawkins being antisemitic. There is no question about it, he is.

He refers to the NOTRORIOUS JEWISH LOBBY, which he say is "one of the most formidable in Washington. page 44 of his Delusional book. He uses the term NOTORIOUS JEWISH LOBBY several times, and suggest that the JEWS control our foreign policy.

With all due respect, that is NUTS.

Conspiracy theory, anyone? Anyone?

[adam harrison]

Susan keeps going on about the Coaltion on Revival.

Who cares?

Jesus said, "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and give unto God that which is God's."

But that isn't enough for her, so she wants to keep spamming about theocracy.

And she also likes to spam about Paul, quote mining and ignoring the parts where he told Husbands to love their wirves as Christ loved the church, to honor and respect them, and Pauls Letter to the Corintians, 13th chapter.

This, in the face of a secular society that has encourage divorce, made it cheap and easy, condoned abortions (to the tune of 45,000,000 dead and still counting), infanticide, euthanais in practice if not in policy, and following the Culture of Death in general.

There is no question that she is being Willfully Dishonest.

I am just waiting for the final act where she comes out with it.

[adam harrison]

As far as who has and hasn't dropped out of posting, I look at the archives and see that the biggest change came when the Star dropped Bill's column.

Further, when word spread that atheists were spamming the comments and Bill never participated of defended Christianity, a lot of people just dispensed with the comments, although they continued to read Bills blog.

And just because someone hasn't posted for a while does not mean they have dropped out.

So Iggy can't claim credit.

In fact, if you look at this claims from a year ago...

1. He was going to start an atheist billboard that would bring in hundreds of new members.

2. He was going to cause a major church in the areas to fold in 6 months.

3. He was going to start a post card campaign that was going to cause the churches in a small town to fold.

4. He was going to get atheists from all over participating in the Forum at KCFreethought.

5. He was going to start an atheist relief fund.

etc.

He failed at everything, although he did recruit Susan to come over here but she has been reduced to quote mining and spamming.

What is pitiful, almost sad, is that he really thinks people are impressed by his offensive behavior. In reality, people are appalled, as more than one at the Community of Reason told me, but they don't say anything because they don't want him ranting at them.

Iggy, debate the Master at the Borders at 93rd and Metcalf tonight! Show the world your brilliance. You can bring your little laptop recorder and James Bond gadgets! hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

Preacher,

Another argument I hear from Christians that god will never tell you to do something horriffic is that god cannot do something that will cause you to sin as god is sinless, otherwise, this would go against his nature and he'd not be god.

Also, anotehr thing they sometimes mention - everything is in the bible and there will be NO OTHER REVELATIONS OR MESSAGES from god. This one is the most shocking to me as it clearly shows they have a narrow mind about the mind of god - pun is intended. You cannot know the mind of god, but you can only approximate it, everything you need to know about the narrow slice of the mind of god is in the bible, so even if you cannot know his mind, you get to know his mind when you read the "limited" concept of his mind's rendering through the Bible. The circular nature of this argument is mind blowoing, intellectually corrupt and just plain simply "religiously" insane from a "common sense perspective".
_________________
CNN will have Sat and Sunday a Special 8 p.m Eastern "Generation Islam" - saw some previews over the week, sounds interesting.
_________________
Bible in the public schools? Sure, why not? - in the history of religion class along other texts of other religions to give kids an idea. Daniel Dennett talks about it as "mandatory" class - I don't care for "mandatory" part of it, I think it could be elective if the lcoal school boards choose to do so, I'd reather it be taught in every school but I think Christian "crazies" will protest - they know when you have a "universal acid" of knolwedge of other religions one can easily draw parallels with the "craziness" of your own religion thus becoming less religious. Young people arelady (Barna.org research) are getting very irreligious (50% of 19-40 year olds are) - you don't need any more temptations of the sinful flesh.
_________________
Tonight Saturday 7 p.m. is The movie night at "Black Dog Coffee House" in Lenexa. Documentary "Zeus" will be shown - do you know that in the end, Zeus causes global flood for the sin's of humanity?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... Where did I hear that before? http://www.gotquestions.org/Flood-accounts.html

[Susan]

adamh, you keep talking about how Jesus resolved the question of theocracy by saying Render to Caesar what's Caesar's and to God what's God's. Maybe you and I are just from different faith traditions, because I've pretty much heard it preached that everything belongs to God anyhow.

Jesus obviously wasn't encouraging people to evade paying taxes or anything -- but I'm not so sure that he was directly promoting our secular American government. And the way you and Will keep blaming our secular society for divorce, abortion, euthanasia, and Weapons of Mass Destruction (or WMD's as Mr. Deity likes to call them) -- I honestly am not sure WHAT you are advocating?

According to the Coalition on Revival, every healthcare worker needs to know the Bible, and be applying it to their professional and personal life. This Coalition has a series of statements regarding what they see as the Christian Worldview as applied to all aspects of life. I'm pretty sure they'd like to illegalize all abortions.

They also say some stuff about how no one family member should be able to pursue his or her own -- I can't remember the word -- fulfillment? gratification? -- at the expense of other members of the family. I'm guessing this would make it very difficult for couples to divorce.

So, Will and adamh, I can't help wondering if you really, deep-down, might agree with this group that seems quite zealous about wanting to take our nation back to someting reminiscent to the pre-Constitutional Colonial days. There was a short period of time in our nation's history, when each Colony was centered around its particular church, and people's lives were basically ruled by that church.

Remember the Salem Witch hunts? Yes, I imagine more people were probably killed in Russian gulags -- but can't we please just for a bit keep the focus on our OWN faults? Our Founding Fathers recognized the people were heading into the same tyranny they'd sacrificed so much to escape -- thus followed the birth of our secular government -- never perfect but ever striving to be free.

[Dolores Lear]

adamh, Would you have killed a Christian if the government ordered you to do so? Like the Citizens of the USA did in the Revolutionary and Civil War? WW1 & 2? Christians were on both sides."

adamh, Would you send nukes and and Atom Bombs at cities, if the government ordered you to do so, like USA Citizens did to two cities in Japan?

adamh said, he (Iggy) did recruit Susan to come over here but she has been reduced to quote mining and spamming.

adamh said: in the face of a secular society, that has encourage divorce, made it cheap and easy, condoned abortions (to the tune of 45,000,000 dead and still counting), infanticide, euthanasia in practice if not in policy, and following the Culture of Death in general.

Christians in the USA are the majority of Citizens, not secular Citizens. The Christian USA has the most weapons of the Culture of Death.

adamh, you can blame Atheists a very small percentage of USA Citizens, but it is Time to look at the Leaders of Government and Religion, and see who is follow the Peace God and who is following the Killer God.

As long as Religion and Government tells you to give Obedience to Government over God/Life, a Planet will have their resources going into Killing Each Other and our Home Planet.

Why? Because Body Birth makes Genetic and Misbred Killer Humans instead of High Tech Purebred Peace Humans?

It is Time to at least look at what Genesis says about the Supernatural Humans God/Us, and the Adult Clone Human Helpmeets they Reproduced by High Tech, against the Defective Killer Children the Adult Clones Reproduced by Body Birth.

adamh you keep blaming Atheists, who are just as Misbred as Christians. Christians still have a Killing Majority on Planet Earth.

[adam harrison]

Dolores, as to your first question: NO

As to your second question, NO.

I am Prolife. And I do not accept your contention that the majority of citizens are Christian, except perhaps in name only.

Susan, The Salem Witch Trials killed perhaps 19 people some 300 years ago.

The Gulags killed AT LEAST 20 million believers during the lifetime of many still living.

And officially atheistic governments are still killing people.

And, Susan, Jesus answered your question. "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar', and to God that which is Gods".

If His answer is not enough for you, thats tough. But going on about the Coaliton on Revival is meaningless; I had never even heard of it before you mentioned it.

And, as far as focusing on our own faults, thats what I have been doing...mass murder of the unborn, infanticide and euthansias in practice if not by admitted policy, wmds that could wipe our human life (courtesy of SECULAR science) but you just ignore it and act like we are oh, so superior.

[Mary Novaria]

Bill, you hit the nail on the head with the term "wounded healers." I subscribe to the idea we are all works in progress and that most of us are wounded in some way. Often sharing our woundedness does help others on the journey. That said, I have been aquainted with clergy who are seriously wounded and not healed in the least. They have done even more damage to flocks and colleagues who were in need of leadership and healing. There is something very flawed--way before even the congregational search process--that allows too many people who are so unfit to be ordained--people with serious psychological issues, untreated addictions, etc. A true call to ministry is affirmed in community. Someone who claims to be called may be deluding themselves if no one else seems to think so, and that is typical of those who are truly not well enough to pastor a congregation--they may be able to talk the talk, but often they have no clue about their shortcomings and little humility. Oh well, I guess not everyone can be Henri Nouwen.

[Mary Novaria]

p.s. God bless you for serving in that capacity. I have "been there, done that" and have sworn never to do it again.

[Dolores Lear]

adamh.
"And, as far as focusing on our own faults, thats what I have been doing...mass murder of the unborn, infanticide and euthanasia's in practice if not by admitted policy, wmds that could wipe our human life (courtesy of SECULAR science)"

Me.
And adamh, while you worry about the above, the Uncontrolled Males have made a population explosion, from 1 Billion in 1900, to 7 Billion in 2011.

And with so many Humans that are starving and homeless, Society should do something about all the Unwanted Humans born every day, Control the Fertile Males.

Females cannot make Babies without the male sperm. This is what should concern you and society, not the results of Male Lust that causes all the abortion problems plus war, and killing each other and our Home Planet.

If we do not get to the Basic Cause of our Problems, how much longer can Earth put up with the Abuse of the Killer Human Species reproduced by Body Birth?

We do have the High Tech again today of Reproducing in a High Tech Lab without Body Birth, like God/Us did in Genesis. And we could tie all the male tubes. Abortion problems solved.

Who a Person's Parents are and all the different Living Environments on Earth, do cause all the Problems.

Humans should be able to understand High Tech Purebred Peace Human Equal Male and Female Asexual Reproduction, with High Tech Regeneration, would be an improvement over Body Birth Killer Humans.

You seem to be against aborting females, and, males born in different Religious or Nonreligious environments, who are not responsible for who their parents are, or the environment they are raised in.

Raise up a child, and when they are grown they will not depart from it. The Proof of this is in all the Religious countries that are at war with each other.

[Fnu]

(Continued) To: adamh and Will Graham

I still have a question for you both.
Would you be happy if god sent you both to hell, just to see if I would stop being a atheist for .0002 of a god second?

Please do try to answer in your own words! (so to speak)

What I am has all ways been here, and will always be around John.

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

a.theist wrote>>>>>>>.
Patricia (Atheist No Longer Posting) Corbin (Catholic No Longer Posting) PreacherDJ (Believer Still Posting)
________________________________
People change their minds and modify their behavior as "moral relativists" all the time. It is normal, it is life. They maybe still reading this blog, they may have converted to Scientology, atheists may have become Chrisitans/Muslims/Jews and believers (including Catholics - aren't they believers?) may have become godless. Life goes on. Moral relativism reigns.

God changes his mind all the time in the Bible, acts "abnormal" to me, as if there is "normal" with god - it just is, the same goes for the above mentioned posters - they just "are" and their "are" is what they want it to be, not what you and I want them to be. More power to them.

The space alien Yahweh modifies his own behavior based on his own "free will" which he has granted to himself (this is a misnomer by itself), so nothing wrong with moral relativistic humans to do the same and even if the space alien Yahweh did not give them free will, they'd still be doing whatever they want - because they are animals and animals have a mind of their own.

a.theist, for an animal that has evolved, you should understand the basics of "living" normally. Only when you understand the "bird's eye view" of "normal" living in a physcial world, you then can build up a concept of a "biblical world" through the prism of your "theism". If you go to "normal/physical world" from the "biblical foundation" it is a castle built on sand.

I beleive that these folks who have been posting here before and not posting now are off to better "moral relativiistc" things for them - good for them.

The point is proven - human animals will do wantever they want to do to maintain their "mental equilibrium" - these posters are surely doing the same.

[a.theist]

Iggy!

Your 4:22 Post is right. People stop posting for a number of reasons. But not because of you.

Or as adamh posted -

"As far as who has and hasn't dropped out of posting, I look at the archives and see that the biggest change came when the Star dropped Bill's column."

"Further, when word spread that atheists were spamming the comments and Bill never participated of defended Christianity, a lot of people just dispensed with the comments, although they continued to read Bills blog."

"And just because someone hasn't posted for a while does not mean they have dropped out."

"So Iggy can't claim credit."