New interfaith partners: 8-24-09

Way back in 1893 (just 15 years before the Cubs last won a World Series), a World Parliament of Religions gathered in Chicago. Somewhere on one of my bookshelves, I have a two-volume account of what went on there.

Out of that effort has grown a great deal of interfaith activity. In fact, the 1893 gathering often is given credit for spurring interfaith dialogue in this country and elsewhere, too.

The most recent news with connections to that long-ago event is the announcement of a partnership between the Council for a Parliament of the World's Religions and Patheos.com, an online resource for people interested in interfaith dialogue.

In a press release about the new partnership, Leo Brunnick, founder and CEO of Patheos, said the "Council for the Parliament of World Religions is unique in its ability to bring so many of the world's religious representatives together. They do the hard but necessary work of fostering interreligious understanding and harmony, while honoring the essential and precious nature of each tradition."

As you can see by looking at the Parliament's Web site, to which I've linked you above, the group plans to hold a conference in December in Melbourne, Australia, a city that, as far as I know, doesn't have a baseball team with anything like my Cubs' century-plus-long record of frustration. (But perhaps religious people while there could ponder whether God is punishing the Cubs for something.)

As I've said many times here, the call of our generation is to learn to live together in religious harmony. The alternative, as we've seen throughout history and many places today, is unsustainable over the long haul and leads only to heartache and even violence.

* * *

A LAZY-BONED POPE?

The cast has been removed from Pope Benedict XVI's broken wrist, but the pontiff says his wrist still is a little "lazy." Still, it's good to see the Catholic hierarchy throw off the cast system.

Comments

[DW]

Perhaps all of the other world religions should get together and pay homage to the "essential and precious nature" of each other's faith tradition, but not Christianity. The problems with conferences such as this is its organizers want participants to give tacit agreement to the idea that all religions are equally valid. Of course, no Christian can accept this nonsense. Christianity is not a "faith tradition" on par with Judiasm, Islam, etc. Christianity is the one true religion. There is no provision in Christianity for "other paths" to God and salvation. Jesus is the only way; the only path. Christians should not support conferences which imply otherwsie. To do so would be a disservice to those members of other religions who are on the wrong path.

[Will Graham]

Bill, thats an odd juxtaposition of posts; from praising interfaith to making demeaning jokes about the Pople.

Sure, you can do it, but is it helpful? It seems to try to take a swipe at Catholics every chance you get.

[Will Graham]

Susan, a couple of things about your last post yesterday. Your little attempt at a smear simply demonstrates that you
are adopting Iggy's tactics of making things up.

You knew he was doing that all long didn't you? Yep, and you proved the point of my previous post with your own use of somthing that is exactly the type of swill he dishes out.

Q.E.D

As to your theological efforts, if you are going to try and discredit the Bible, at least stick to the "story" as it is.

But the most APPALLING thing about your post last night was your answer to my question; after pointing out that the Jews were a former slave people fighting for survival, and comparing that to their lack of fighting in World War Two with its well known results, I asked if you preferred the later scenario.

And you have to THINK ABOUT IT?!? Wow! So the Jews being wiped out is an acceptable option to you?

And why do you go on about Isaac? Susan, you YOURSELF accept aborting a child if the circumstances demand it in your judgment.

Just another verison of child sacrifice as far as I am concerned; killing the child for some reason you deem acceptable.

And yet you continue to pass judgment on the Bible and other Christians..."fundamentalists", "inerrantists", "literalists", etc....when YOU are a Moral Relativist.

Whatever...you and Iggy go concoct some more dialog.

Maybe a phone conversation or something this time.

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

Atheists attend another Bible study in Kansas City...

Tomorrow Tuesday 7:30 p.m. Please, e-mail [email protected] for information if interested. Topic of discussion will be the book of "Joshua" - should make for some interesting reading.

Looks like at least one of the crazy Christian trolls or even the "whole team" of our own crazy Christian bloggers - assumably, adamh/Will Graham, "Dan", "Julie" and maybe even the "master debater" and "glorious leader" James Christensen - will show up.

"Jeremy Whoever" [email protected] (adamh/Will Graham) has promised they will "put up a show" at the Bible Study tomorrow - perhaps, to impress their fellow Christians that there are "true" Christians out there like them who will stand up to atheists and demolish their arguments.

May gawd have mercy on their souls!

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

DW wrote>>>>>>>Perhaps all of the other world religions should get together and pay homage to the "essential and precious nature" of each other's faith tradition, but not Christianity. The problems with conferences such as this is its organizers want participants to give tacit agreement to the idea that all religions are equally valid. Of course, no Christian can accept this nonsense. Christianity is not a "faith tradition" on par with Judiasm, Islam, etc. Christianity is the one true religion. There is no provision in Christianity for "other paths" to God and salvation. Jesus is the only way; the only path. Christians should not support conferences which imply otherwsie. To do so would be a disservice to those members of other religions who are on the wrong path.

DW,

I agree, Christianity stands out in the field in its uniqueness - as the "most bigoted" and "only righteous" form of delusion.

You definitly sin if you don't accept the word of god - you have a ticket to hell direclty. On top of that you cannot be a Christian (or so we keep hearing from "true" Christians like last night at 6 p.m. Bible study) and not follow the word of god and there are many Christians who claim to be Christians but not "true" Christians.

I love this particular line of reasoning of "fundamentalists" - they are "dead" sure they got the lifeline and path to heaven and all others don't.

At least they are honest about their beliefs. Next Sunday I will ask the group of 10 or so if they think "death panels" are part of the "Health Care Overhaul" and if Barak Obama in their mind a US "citizen".

Christian beliefs in their extreme deserve to die. Christianity in its extreme deserves to die. It has to morph into "interfaith" and "mild" vesion of delusion in order to survive - and it is...

The most recent example - last weeks decision by a major Lutheran coalition to accept gays in clergy positions.

Christianity and Christians - die out or get out of the way of humanity!

[Susan]

DW -- Like you I believe that Jesus is the Way to God. I just take it a step further and believe in a God loving enough and powerful enough to save EVERYONE through Christ's sacrifice, whatever their beliefs happen to be. Kind of like I'd love my child enough to save her out of a burning house, even if she didn't have enough understanding of what was going on to even appreciate my gesture.

After all, we are all going to be in for a heap of surprises when we get to the other side, Christians as well as everyone else. Who's to say that we Christians don't have quite a bit of it wrong -- and how do we know that dialog with a Buddhist or Muslim or Atheist or Anismist isn't just what we need to get to know God more fully? I hope somebody's gotten the great idea to include Atheists in these interfaith gatherings.

After all, it's aTHEism, not aDEism: I think both Iggy and Cole have said on here that it's possible there is some sort of a God/Catalyst who got it all started.

Will, from last night, when I said I needed to study up on it more, I was talking about all the killing in the Jewish Testament. I need to put in more thought before I know whether or not I agree with your assessment that all of this killing was necessary for the Jews to avoid extermination. But of course you knew that. You were just being willfully ignorant, as usual. Either that or your Happy Meal is even shorter of fries than I'd originally thought ...

Hmm, maybe that's why you seem so UNhappy and pessimistic about our (not perfect but) wonderful secular society ... maybe you just got shorted in your Happy Meal ... How's that for a little McPsychiatry???

[Lynne - www.kcfreethinkers.org]

DW,

Everyone thinks their own path is the best one or else they'd follow a different one. The difference is that most people accept that adults can make their own decisions, even if we happen to disagree with them. The idea is not that all beliefs are equal but that all PEOPLE are equal and worthy of respect whether you happen to agree with their religious views or not. Isolating yourself from people who disagree with you or demanding that they convert is not going to help people get along.

I happen to think that you are on the wrong path and that we all have the same fate after death: annihilation. But I respect your right to be wrong (wrong in the sense of being mistaken, not immoral), and that's what everyone ought to do - respect other people's right to make their own mistakes.

[Susan]

And Will -- you wonder why I "go on about" the sacrifice of Isaac, when I've shared that I think abortion may be warranted if a mother's life is in danger? Do you see killing to save a life as tantamount to muder, Will?

Now I'm wondering why you and adamh go on about abortion if you think it's acceptable for a father to bind his child and lay him on a sacrificial altar, with a full willingless to murder him unless God halts the procedings?

But, to simply respond to the "why" part of your question -- I "go on about" things like the sacrifice of Isaac, and Paul's negative veiw of women, because of the ways these incidents/attitudes have been cannonized and upheld for centuries as God's inerrant Word.

I see it as harmful to teach people that if they're really "sold out to God," they'll be willing to do anything, even murder -- and I also see it as harmful to teach men and women that women must always be subordinate to men in church because of Eve being last in creation and first to sin.

The idea that God wants us to be willing to kill our kids is a lot more scary to me than the idea of letting women choose what happens with their bodies. Mainly because I of course had all these options with my own pregnancies -- but having the options didn't "make" me feel that I should abort, or that God was compelling me to abort. Having a choice doesn't kill babies. (Continued)

[Susan]

From what I can understand of Evolution, the normal state of a female mammal is to seek out pregnancy and do everything in her power to nurture and prepare her young for life in the world. When female mammals feel an urge to destroy their young, it's usually because something is seriously not going right, and for whatever reason they are feeling that their offspring don't have a decent chance for success.

So, yes, it does concern me to hear of such high rates of abortion among women in our society. But to me the answer is not to take away the power to choose -- because I think this power needs to be there for when a mother's life is in danger, such as when a 9-year-old girl is raped and becomes pregnant.

To me, the answer to this huge systemic problem of ours is to look at what changes we might be able to make, to decrease the likelihood of situations where mothers feel their best option is to abort. First off, better education about how to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

I wish more churches presented a postive attitude about masturbation -- because now that young people reach sexual maturity so many years before they're ready to assume adult responsibiliy, it's just too unrealistic to expect them to stay innocent and unawakened until their wedding nights.

So I think one big answer to the problem of teen pregnancy is to STOP with teaching all the guilt about entertaining sexual fantasies. Let kids know that our society has created an unrealistic situation where they are physically ready to mate long before they have the education and skills they need to survive in the world. And say, Here is some information for you to peruse, to figure out how you personally can make the best of this difficult situation. (Continued)

[Susan]

(Continued) I think a high degree of unwanted pregnancies occur, because girls and young women feel so ambivalent about their own sexuality. They feel bad about devising a plan for meeting their own sexual needs -- whether on their own or with a partner using contraception. It's seen as less sinful to just get overwhelmed and fall into sin, than to plan for sin.

If only they didn't feel like their feelings were a sin, they could just own them and deal with them in a healthy way. As it is, there seems to me to be a high degree of date rapes in the church.

And I will say here that as a woman, I really do believe in taking every girl or woman seriously when she says she's been raped. It goes against the grain for me to say as I am now saying, that maybe sometimes they are stretching the truth a bit. But I've had one young woman share how this young man forced her into sex on their first date -- and then was so apologetic that she forgave him and went out with him again the next night, when he raped her again.

I don't think she told anyone about the rapes until she realized she was pregnant. And she never even prosecuted this young man. I just don't get it. If I'd been raped I would be prosecuting -- or if for whatever reason I decided not to prosecute, and I became pregnant, I sure as heck wouldn't be spreading it around that my child was the result of a rape.

This isn't the only date-rape-pregnancy I've heard of in the church. Are there really so many young men so out-of-control -- or is there just so much ambivalance about sex in the church that young people try to suppress these urges until they don't know how to deal with them anymore?

Again, my natural inclination is to side with the woman -- I've just also realized how damaging it can be to a young man's reputation, if it really was consensual sex but the girl felt so guilty that the only way she could deal with it was to persuade herself she'd been raped. I think young people seriously need to be encouraged to have honest conversations before hand, so there's no risk of misunderstanding.

[memberofKCFreeThinkers.org]

Last night Fnu said, “What I am has all ways been here, and will always be around John.
John, that sounds funky. Who are you? You sound sort of like god
Thanks, a theist. You’re a champ. A person of honor. So loyal. to the Kansas City shuffle.

There is a baseball team actually with a worse record than the Royals? I would say more prayers are needed. Baseball is so important to all the starving children of the world.

Glad to hear about the Pope. I’m sure his penis is glad, too.

This interfaith activity, I suppose, is a step forward. Too bad we just can’t get over superstition. !893. Efforts sure do move slowly…

I wonder why fairness always meets such opposition?

Bible study was good last night. More lively than last time.

The bible teacher said, though the number of Xs in USA are shrinking, numbers in foreign countries are growing. He said this was happening because more Xs were being killed.

More killings equals more members. Great trade off. I couldn’t believe I was hearing this.

I asked the members if they condoned, supported, people going to countries where there is a good chance of being killed. Silence. Most of them looked at me, then away. One older guy said yes. I repeated yes? He said yes again, then looked down. Silence again.

This is weirdness. If a member of my family were thinking about doing this, I would do everything in my power – short of being physical - to discourage them.

Life is short enough. Even with all this we are getting better.

Bill IS trying for peace and fairness, which is better than some are doing…

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

[adam harrison]

Susan, regarding your 9:47 a.m. post, let me get this straight.

Are you saying you belief the only reason you would accept abortion is to save a life?

You do know that most of the million and a half abortions every year have nothing to do with saving a life, don't you?

Its not God wanting people to kill their kids...which a third of all pregnant mothers murderously do...but it is our Secular Society sending the message to these women that "choice" is the Supreme Value.

Even more Valuable Than Life.

As to the sacrifice of Isaac, you have to deal with the story as it is, just a Will pointed out.

It was clear that the message to Abraham that child sacrifice...widely practiced in that time, just as it is in ours...was not acceptable.

The Lord sent a message to Abraham, and countless generations to come, in a way they would never forget, that Child Sacrifice was not acceptable but the He, the Lord, would provide the sacrifice. (Genesis 22:8)

[adam harrison]

Iggy, we have all agree to show up at your study if you tell us where it is.

Now.

None of this "half hour" before the meeting bull, and none of this meeeting in parking lots with blinkers on.

That game will NOT be played again.

Got it?

[adam harrison]

Cole, I agree with you! Bill is trying for peace and fairness.

The only trouble is, YOU are not.

[adam harrison]

SUSAN! Iggy's 8:59 post says:

"Christianity and Christians-die out or get out of the way of humanity".

Priceless! This too shall be preserved for posterity.

Susan, does that mean ALL Christians?

Atheists have tried to make Christianity and Christians die out repeatedly.

And every attempt at doing so has resulted in failure and their own destruction and ruin.

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

If anyone is interested in the 7:30 p.m. Bible study with atheists tomorrow Tuesday night, please, e-mail [email protected] for information. It will be e-mailed to you at 6:45 p.m. with full address and even map link for mapping your trip. Anywhere in Kansas City Metro area 45 min will be enough to make to this church - from North Kansas Cty, Blue Springs and Lee's Summit 30 min or so.

If you are a member of the "crazy" Christian trolling team (adamh/Will Graham, Dan, Julie/Julia, Diane/Diana, Master Debater and Glorious Leader James Christensen), please, contact "Jeremy Whoever" at [email protected] to coordinate your car pool or if you want to drive on your own to get directions from him - the church will not be too difficult to find.

How do I know the "trolls" maybe coming? Jeremy Whoeve sent this to me last week.

from Jeremy whoever
to "[email protected]"
Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:42 PM
subjectRe: from IGGY - new Bible Study Tuesday 7:30 p.m.

Our whole team will show! Bring your laptop and James Bond gadgets and we will put on a real show!
************************
Are they going to show up? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Let's see, I just got this - they maybe back pedalling already a day before...
___________________
Jeremy whoever
to"[email protected]"

dateMon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:50 PM

If you want us all to show, you need to tell us where it is so we have time to all get there. 45 minutes may not do it, so don't bitch about it. We told you.I suspect you don't really want us all showing anyway.
_____________________
They never told me 45 min may not do it - here is an e-mail "asking" me if 45 min will do it the answer to which has been "yes, 45 min will do it"
_______________________
fromJeremy whoever
to"[email protected]"
dateFri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Do you think 45 minutes is time enough to get there from Blue Springs?
_______________________
Look forward to finally meeting the Christian trolls face to face and looking them in their delusional eyes!

[trapblock]

Is the atheist plan to demean and insult people into dis-belief?

[Susan]

adamh, the only way I'd consider having an abortion myself would be to save a life, and I'm not even sure that I'd do it then. I just think the option needs to be available. As to the various reasons why other women may choose to end their pregancies, that is none of my business.

It's only my/our business as a society, in the sense that a high rate of abortions (you say 1 in 3 pregnancies ends in abortion?) indicates something is badly wrong for so many mothers to see this as the best course of action.

I say, again, let's look at what we can do as a society to decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies (before conception), and also to make our society a more welcoming place for single mothers. The problem is, many pro-life conservatives such as Dr. Laura keep going on and on about how there's not enough stigma associated with getting pregnant out of wedlock.

So many conservatives are convinced that the rise in unwed pregnancies is mainly due to our society making single parenting such a "walk in the park." It's kind of like the conservatives who think it's now "popular" to be gay. If prople think we've already got such an "overly" welcoming society, they tend to close their minds to improvement. And, again, things are much better now than they've ever been, but there's still lots of room to improve.

And, adamh, you or Will keep asking me to explain Iggy's posts to you. I guess I need to repeat what Cole keeps saying: Iggy and I don't share the same brain. I realize that's hard for you and Will to grasp: I, thus far, have never known the two of you to have a difference of opinion on anything. But in my world, friends can disagree and still be friends.

[Dolores Lear]

Bill: "the call of our generation is to learn to live together in religious harmony."

There cannot be Human Religious Harmony on Earth, anymore than there can be Government Harmony. Humans are Divided by Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth.

In Genesis God/Us were High Tech Male and Female Clone Helpmeeets, not Mates, that Reproduced Adam and Eve Clones. Earth was Colonized by these Perfect Humans, with High Tech Eternal Physical Life After Birth.

The Purebred Human Clone Colony, made Human Unequal Body Birth Mates, and Body Birth Human Children began Sacrificing/Killing Humans and their Earth Home.

Sacrifice Body Birth results: Human Genetic and Physical Birth Defects, Hate, Division, Fornication, GLBTs, Pedophiles, Many Religions/Governments, Pollution, Killing, Wars, Nuclear Bombs, etc.

Our Dying Earth is the Result of Human Sacrifices, instead of Caretaking. Earth is a Spaceship, for Harmony and Equal Sharing of Resources, like in Spaceship Living in the ISS.

The Lifestyle Quest today, is for our Generation to learn to Live on our Earth Spaceship, with Equality and a Sharing Lifestyle After Birth, before we Sacrifice our Whole Planet.

Will Humans today ever Know what happened, to make Perfect Humans 'in the beginning', reproduce Defective Children and start Human Sacrifice Killing, of All Life and our Earth Home?

[adam harrison]

Susan, you are quite right that something is badly wrong for mothers to see murder as as the best course of action.

The first step would be for the Secular Society to quit telling them that "choice" is a higher value than life.

By the way, when you refer to abortion to "save a life" you are arbitrarily assuming that the mothers life is more valuable than the childs. Given your Moral Relativism, this is of course understandable.

And Iggy, If you want us to show up...WE WOULD BE GLAD TOO!

Only thing is, YOU HAVE TO SAY WHERE IT IS!

QUIT HIDING behind James Bond games like e mailing us 45 minutes ahead of time and the like.

We have things to do; we are not going to waste an evening waiting for an email from you that may never come or may give bogus directions.

[IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org]

We have things to do; we are not going to waste an evening waiting for an email from you that may never come or may give bogus directions.
Posted by: adamh | August 24, 2009 at 05:01 PM

That contradicts what "Jeremy Whoever" said - he said "the whole team" will be there"! He did not seem to have a problem with 45 minutes notice for several days and only today started backpedaling on it.

Pray to Jesus that 45 min is enough for you to drive the route that normally takes 30 min from Lee's Summit or Blue Springs and it will be given to you...

Have a little "faith" my delusional Christian troll :o) Pray for the e-mail at 6:45 p.m. with address and directions and it will be given to you. The son of the space alien Yahwheh Jesus says "ANYTHING YOU ASK FOR IN MY NAME WILL BE GIVEN TO YOU". It has to be given to you by 6:45 p.m. as it is the deadline and the rules of the "godless heathen" who set them up.

Pray for the info to be in your e-mail box at 6:45 p.m. and it will be given to you.

JDMahurin is OK with this - he as I understand has no problem with checking his e-mail at 6:45 p.m.. I think he is coming and takes my promise "on faith". I have not heard otherwise from him, so it's most likely OK with him - 5 days ago he e-mailed me saying "Perfect", so you are an "odd ball", sport.

I will also ask Bill to post about the Bible study address to the Blog at 6:45 p.m. sharp if he can? Bill, is it possible to arrange on time? This way there will be no accusations of the "crazy" Christian trolls that the e-mail has never been sent to them and never been received.

Also, I will post it also to this site http://www.KCFreeThinkers.org/tuesdaystudy.htm - check it at 6:45 p.m.

If you don't come, it's OK, the bible study will go on without you. No problem.

[Fnu]

Posted by: adamh | August 24, 2009 at 12:48 PM
"Cole, I agree with you! Bill is trying for peace and fairness.
The only trouble is, YOU are not."

Stated by Bill above "The alternative, as we've seen throughout history and many places today, is unsustainable over the long haul and leads only to heartache and even violence."

So I see you as the the Violent one adamh, since your saying Cole is not the fair one. I mean come on your only judging him by your rules are you not?

[Will Graham]

KCF, I don't care what "Jeremy Whoever" said or didn't say; and you may be making it up anyway.

I also would like to show up, but I have to arrange a ride, and 45 minutes may not be enough for me either.

And I can't have people on stand by.

But I tell you this, and PROMISE IT HERE: if you say TONIGHT WHERE it is, I will make arrangement to show no matter what.

And I will bring at least TWO "Christian trolls" with me! (One an attractive female you have spoken to.)

YOUR CHOICE.

[Will Graham]

Fnu, you are only judging adam by your rules, are you not?

[Fnu]

Will Graham, "Fnu, you are only judging adam by your rules, are you not?"

Nope I'm not "Your Honor" get over it.

Question for you Will Graham and/or Bill, What is your alls difference in defintions between Judging and Believing? Lets leave Knowing out of it.