Organ-izing worship: 5-22-09
Why we remember: 5-25-09

More Holocaust denial: 5-23-/24-09

There's new evidence that antisemitism and Holocaust denying are growing problems in the Middle East. It's fueled not only by on-going political differences related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict but also by a pernicious anti-Jewish bias that has been promoted among some leaders of Islam for decades.

Holocaust

The latest distressing numbers come from a study done by a faculty member at the University of Haifa in Israel. It found in recent polling that 40.5 percent of Arab Israelis say they believe the Holocaust never happened. This is compared with 28 percent who responded that way in 2006, leading the study leader to suggest that perhaps some part of this is simply political protest, not deeply held belief. The protest would be against some Israeli policies and actions, some of which deserve to be criticized. And criticism of Israeli policy is not, in and of itself, antisemitism. (For more news stories about this study, click here.)

Still, the 40.5 percent figure is staggering. Even 1 percent would be too high.

Some of this Holocaust-denial phenomenon can be explained by the fact that some of the more radical leaders of Islam in the Middle East promote this garbage. Indeed, it is pretty easy to walk into book stores in the area and purchase a copy of the fraudulent book, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, not displayed as a historic curiosity because of its antisemitic and false content but as literal history.

Some Muslim leaders in the area are following in the footsteps of the late mufti of Jerusalem, Haf Amin al-Husseini, who spent much of his life churning up violence against Jews. He's the subject of a relatively new book I've mentioned here before, Icon of Evil: Hitler's Mufti and the Rise of Radical Islam, by David G. Dalin and John F. Rothman.

Large segments of Christianity, as I've said here before (see my essay on this subject under the "Check this out" headline on the right side of this page), have a long history of promoting anti-Judaism, which helped to create modern antisemitism. And now parts of Islam are adding fuel to the antisemitic fires. It's more proof that bad ideas are dangerous and can lead to death and destruction.

* * *

IS THE POPE YOUR FACEBOOK 'FRIEND'?

In the class I'll be teaching this summer at Ghost Ranch (for details, see the link under the "Check this out" headline on the right side of this page) we'll be talking some about using such social networking tools as Facebook as a means of having the prophetic voice of people of faith heard today. Turns out that Pope Benedict XVI is all over this now. Good for him. Wonder whether it will make a difference.

Comments

Will Graham

For those atheists and Christians who are fans of Bart Ehrman and his treatment of the scriptures in discussing original documents versus copies, lets see how intellectually honest you are,,,

By asking a comparable question about documents as applied to the Holocaust...where can I see an original document, or even a copy, signed by Hitler indicating the he ordered the Holocaust?

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Jt, I don’t want to be everybody’s god. Just be, your own god. Be in control of your life and don’t control others lives. You twist it to the opposite. Misdirection! I have listened to myself and I make complete sense. This is why we have a secular Constitution and not a theocracy or atheistic government.

JT, said, “God is worthy of being followed, unlike you, Cole. And it's a *good* thing that He promises to help people root out the evil in their lives when they commit to following Him. That's what those who want to the follow Him *want* to happen.

I believe they ‘want’ it to happen. It’s all wishful thinking. God is worthy of following? He creates a world that is beautiful and complete. Then, because his first two people ‘want’ to be educated - might ‘want’ to live forever, or at least a long time, “like ‘us’” the rest of humanity is to be punished for-EVER upon this earth with hunger, diseases, earth disasters, pain and suffering to only obtain 10 minutes of fame and then die here ‘and’ go to another world and fall upon our knees and give a jealous god his measure of respect? Are you nutzzzz? This is torture. Something you said you were against.

Oh, JT, who is ‘us’? Genesis: 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Continued

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Continued: Adamh said, “You know, what I find amusing about all the atheists posting here is that they spend so much time on Bill's blog while they have abandoned the KCFREETHOUGHT ATHEIST FORUM.
I think that says something.”

I think ‘you’ say something. Preaching in front of the choir is not as much fun, Columbo.

As far as music goes…It’s not for our soul. We don’t have a soul. Music is for the ears and the mind to enjoy. ‘Why?’ is not so important to me. The fact that I do, is…I like breathing because I stay alive. Give me a good rock n’ roll guitar any day! Even from the Brits…Especially, from them…

Red said, “Philip Zuckerman (Free Inquiry April/May) came up with a new words "AWEISM" to describe the feeling we all have when contemplating the universe or listening to great music.

I’m for that!

Once again JT, (your May22 - 3:22 pm post) – “monkey typing on a typewriter” - JT, it’s a magic show to water down science so god can prevail…You are so funny I almost spilled my grape juice.

It’s amazing how some of you criticize You Tube and Wikipedia to belittle others. Not jesus-like…Once again, misdirection. Magic tricks. Magi! Remember the three Magus who followed the star to find…whom? Would you like to know Magi? : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Magi
Also:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09527a.htm

also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi

also:
http://ardictionary.com/Magi

and:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/magus

And also:
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-286594_ITM Continued

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Continued:
How many Xs out there have read the bible from page one to the end? Now “that”, is one messed up group of information! If you haven’t read it all from page one to the end I highly suggest it, along with the reasoning of teaching religion history in every level of school. Let people choose for themselves without making them feel guilt. Guilt sucks. I have had way too much tossed upon me. Lucky for me, I have my force field activated…

Adamh, check this out on your ‘handle’ – not your real name – it’s laughable…and not from Wikipedia

http://www.behindthename.com/name/adam

Uh, adamh, looks like you and ‘Red’ have something in common. Are you a drunkard? No, of course not. You are a breathing hunk of clay/earth. Where did all that soil come from? In such a short time.

Susan, I’m glad you enjoyed the Dover video. You and Bill seem to be the only reasonable Xs on this page of views.

Bring an article of interest tonight at the back room of Black Dog café btwn 6 and forever or until they close.

http://www.bdcoffeehouse.com/home.asp

Xs are allowed.

Peace for the Sake of Goodness Cole

Dolores Lear

Bill:
"And now parts of Islam are adding fuel to the antisemitic fires. It's more proof that bad ideas are dangerous and can lead to death and destruction."

I agree Bad Ideas are dangerous and can lead to death and destruction. Christians were the first Enemy of Israel, and many deaths happened.

More scary than Islam, for me, are Religious Humans that make all the weapons of destruction, that Pollutes our Home Planet, and will be Death to All Life on Earth.

The First Country to do this was a Country with a Majority of Religious Citizens that Loved Jesus. Why are Christians so Killer Minded?

The Christian Majority in the USA in the 1940s, made the first Atom Bomb. Why? God does not protect them? Did God ever protect Religious Humans in their Killing Past?

Why does the USA keep saying other Humans are dangerous and threat our Country? The USA was first with weapons of massive destruction, the Atom Bomb, the Nuclear Bomb, etc.

The USA, considered a Christian Nation 'under God', has Military Bases all over our Planet with a massive Nuclear Armory.

It is Time to look into a mirror and find our our Enemy is Us? Where is the Love of GOD/LIFE, God and Jesus on Planet Earth? Or, the Love of any other God on Planet Earth?

LIFE is for the Living, not the Dead.

The largest population on Earth, has the Lord God of LIFE, in Genesis, and their Three Religions are fighting against each other.

The Evil followers of this Father God of LIFE, have Nuclear Bombs and Pollution from sea to sea. Where are the Good Children of God on our Earth Home?

Life is for the Living, so Why are God's Children trying to Eliminate Each Other, and Kill our Home Planet in the process?

For God So Love the World....? What happened to the Peace Lord God, and Jesus the Prince of Peace?

Dolores Lear

Why do Humans that Returned/Evolved up to High Tech Science, want to use This Good Knowledge of Nuclear and Laser High Tech, for Evil for All Life on Planet Earth, and our Eco System?

What Changed Equal Humans in Genesis to Unequal Killers? The Perfect Humans 'Sinned'. What is Sin?

Does Sin explain, All the Hate, Killing and Wars between Human Brothers/Sisters?

Does Sin explain, How our Eco System suffered since the USA made the Atom Bomb? Who is responsible for the Holocaust of our Planet? More Human Holocaust Denial?

Is it Time to find out, with our High Tech Science, What Was the Original Human Sin, that made Cain Kill Abel?

Instead of just using Original Sin for a Cope Out, in Holocaust Denial of Humans That Keep Killing Each Other and Our Home Planet?

It is Time to Translate all Supernatural Scripture and Myth, with a High Tech Science Explanation, of Gods in our Image, that flew in Fiery Chariots and Colonized Earth with an Atmosphere for Life as we Know it.

It is Time to find out Why the Original Perfect Peace Humans Reproduced by High Tech Science Birth, started Reproducing Inbred/Misbred Killer Humans by Heterosexual Body Birth, recorded in Religious Holy Books and Myth.

The Enemy of Israel, is Christians and Muslims, since Jesus the Prince of Peace was born.

Where is the Kingdom of Peace, on Earth, like it is in Heaven, that all Three Religions teach about, for Life After Death?

Why Not Peace for Life After Birth on Earth, instead of the Holocaust Death of Earth, caused by the Judgment Day Fire from our Nuclear Pollution and Bombs, by the Unequal Children of GOD/LIFE?

Equality of Earth's Resources is Necessary, for Life and Peace to All Life. Inequality is Holocaust and Death to All Life on our Planet.

It is Time to Stop Pointing the Finger. The Enemy of Earth is Misbred Killer Humans, All Of Us.

Dolores Lear

From a novel I am reading. "Some of the guests gave new meaning to the word "rude", and his natural inclination was neither to simply take it nor to turn the other cheek. That went against every precept for survival he'd ever had drummed into his head."

How are Humans taught about Survival on Earth, from Holocausts? By Killing Each Other?

From the Passivist Lord God in Genesis. In the beginning of Equal Peace Human Life in 6000 BCE. Perfect Human Male and Female Clones, were taught 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'.

Then The Peace Human Clones, who were not Reproduced by Heterosexual Body Birth, Reproduced Body Birth Killer Children, BCE?

The Noah/Atlantis Society Evolved to a High Tech Killer Society with Atomic Bombs, that ended in a Killer Planetary Flood, BCE?

The Human Survivors, Noah, etc., Repopulated the Earth again, with Body Birth Killer Children, Generation Birth, Death and Rebirth BCE?

Jesus, year 1 CE, became a new Passivist God, and taught 'Turn the Other Cheek'. He escaped Earth Alive, with the Original Passivist God. 30 CE?

'Survival Of The Fittest' or Evolution, was recorded since the 1500s CE.

Why is Life So Complicated, Inhumane, and Unequal for All Brothers/Sisters of LIFE? Because of Original Sin, of Reproducing Killer Children?

It is Time for a 'Rational' Reason, Humans were Peace Adam male and Eve female Human Clones 'in the beginning' of Life on Earth.

Humans today do Know How to Supernaturally Colonize a Planet, and Reproduce a Human Fetus, Clone Animals, and make Killer Nuclear Bombs, in their High Tech Labs.

So How Will Killer Humans Survive the Coming Human Nuclear Holocaust? CE?

Susan

Will, you seem to be asking: If there is more to Biblical history than initially meets the eye, then couldn't there be more to Holocaust history, too? I'm sure there is way, way more to both. Just as I keep learning more and more about the Bible and God, so I keep learning more and more about the Holocaust.

One big difference about the events described in each history, though, is the fact that the Holocause events occurred more recently -- indeed, in a time when it was possible to photograph and even film some of the atrocities committed. And indeed some of the murderers did take great pride in documenting their atrocities. I have seen some of the footage -- and Bill has a photograph of human remains from one of the concentration camps. The gas chambers are still there I believe.

As far as whether it can "all" be pinned directly on one man, Hitler: isn't there an old saying that the ruler gets all the credit and all the blame for everything that happens under his reign? As I recall, mass-murderer Charles Manson never directly killed anyone. Some criminals are skilled enough to do heinous things while keeping themselves "clean."

So, there probably is no document demonstrating that Hitler signed an official order for the Holocaust. We still have the documentation that it happened under his reign. And, most importantly, that it DID happen and wasn't fabricated by the Jewish people to gain world sympathy.

Susan

Cole, I also was puzzled by J.T.'s assertion that you want to be everybody's God. That's not at all how you come across: you seem like a person who really enjoys his life and honestly isn't wrapped up in wanting anyone else to "follow" you.

I think it all boils down to J.T. wanting to get a rise out of people if he can't "beat" them in an argument. He takes such pride in his literary skills, that if people read his views and remain unimpressed and unpersuaded (i.e. because they have their own deeply-held views), then he feels very angry and feels a childish urge to goad them into getting mad and lowering themselves to his level (I think he also hopes to get people so emotionally-riled they'll stop making logical sense, which he feels will give him the upper-hand).

I think it was while reading Bill's essay, "Anti-Judaism in Christian History," that I learned how it angered Martin Luther that the Jews still weren't interested in converting to Christianity, even after the reforms he'd instituted. And his anger caused him to really lash out verbally.

J.T. seems to feel a similar sort of wrath -- and since there is never anyone who agrees with him 100%, he seems to be continuously making the rounds, goading at one person and then another. It's too bad, really, because he seems like an intelligent person and sometimes says things I find valuable and thought-provoking. Too bad his God-complex disables him from relating to others as equals.

Red Biddy

Will Graham,
You want to see an original document of Hitler indicating he ordered the holocaust ?

You'll have to go (in this country) to the Huntington Library, San Marino, C.A. where they have one on display - dated 15th September, 1935.
It's an authorization for the infamous Nuremberg Laws, signed by Hitler and others on his staff, which laws started the whole process of the Final Solution.
For how they did it - check out the Wansee Protocol (which original copy of the minutes is available - I have a copy !) which lists the numbers of the jewish populations of the countries being targeted for extermination.

I did not get any of this information from Wikipedia or You Tube LOL

Will, stop taking that crackpot David Irving seriously. He's the one keeps saying there is no evidence Hitler ordered the Holocaust. He's completely nuts !
Elizabeth Regina

DW

The Jews savagely persecuted Christians following the ressurection of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Romans used Christians as human torches and fed them to Lions. Where's the outrage?

"Evangelism" is not "anti-Judiasm." Evangelism is an imperative for Christians, a direct command from Jesus Christ, the Messiah. The proper objective of all Christians is to convert all nations and all people to the Christian religion.

The Holocaust was not religious in nature. It was a secular atrocity.

For every Christian or Muslim who denies the Holocaust happend, there are milliions who don't. The Holocaust denyers are extreme outliers. In the overall scheme of things, it's not worth getting THAT excited about.

Dolores Lear

The Picture Bill posted above of many Human Bones piled together, probably looks like our Home Planet did, after the Noah/Atlantis Planetary Flood Holocaust.

The Dead Humans and Animals, floated on the water, until the water drained down to the land area, and then ended in piles, all over the Planet.

I accept there was a population explosion in the Noah/Atlantis Society like today.

There would be many piles of bones left on Earth, and buried in mounds like are they found all over the Earth, and bones were also ground up by Humans to use as fertilizer.

This is Proof that our Human Body Elements are used again, for the Next Generation of Human Birth, Death and Rebirth, especially for the Repopulation of a Planet after a Planetary Holocaust.

The Tidal Waves After the Flood as the water abated, may have made some of the mounds also. Not all mounds have been dug into, but some have been, and have been called burial mounds of tribes. I do not think the Indian Tribes in America buried their dead.

After the Man-Made Water Catastrophe Holocaust, Humans are again setting up on land, sea and in the air, the Prophesied Man-made Fire Planetary Catastrophe Holocaust.

People still accept these Planetary Holocausts are set up, by our Loving Peace God in Genesis, and the Trinity God with Jesus. Why?

We have TV and Computers that show us it is Humans doing this Destruction to our Home Planet, not Gods in our Human Image, that Colonized Life on Earth 'in the beginning' Why would they want to Kill their Creation?

Why do Humans today want to Kill their Home Planet and their Eco System? Because of the Original Human Sin, that is the Cause of All Holocausts ever since Cain Killed his Brother Abel?

Susan:
You summed up J.T.'s personality very good.

Red Biddy

Susan, Cole,
It's obvious that JT is trying to be insulting, with his comment that Cole wants to be everybody's God. I think JT is trying to be this blog's "God" in regard to religion or his interpretation of what it should be.
For an attack on the so called New Atheists a.theist referred us to a web site yesterday, run by a guy who calls himself Vox Day (i.e. vox dei) Not his real name which is Theodore Beale. His web site is called POPOLI.
Here's an example of a guy who really is setting himself up as the God of Opinion, by calling himself Vox Dei (Day) and his use of the old Latin phrase:
Vox populi - vox dei (voice of the people - voice of god)
I thought it rather clever except he has spelt "populi" as "popoli" which is a Honda model ! He may have meant to do that on purpose of course ! "Popular" car !
Thanks for that link, a.theist. it was fun. I shall go there again.

As for calling atheism a religion, this is just a way of annoying us ! I propose not even rising to the bait and arguing about it.

"Speak roughly to your little boy, and cuff him when he sneezes
He only does it to annoy because he know it teases."
(Alice and Wonderland)

And I didn't get that quote from Wikipedia.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

One of my aquanintances who is a Christian was shocked and even cried when we talked about Jesus saying you have to hate your mother and father and family and give them up in order ot be his deciple - she did not believe me untill I showed her several translations all saying the same thign. She emphatically said "it cannot be so!" - WHEN FACTS WERE STARING HER IN THE FACE.

She could not believe that Jesus told a woman from faith that she shoudl be treated like a dog and not get a blessing from him & his god. Later of course, he rescinded, but this makes a nice story - see Jebus was nice to people of another tribe! :o)

Apparently, everyone has a different benchmark for "burden of proof" - for some Xians it is just too low in my opinion and is based on fables and hear say and oral traditions just like songs and stories.

The same goes for the Muslim world you have provided a refernce to above.

Regardless of how you splice it or dice it - when we are faced with lack of proof of universe creation, historical facts, etc. - THE DEFAULT POSITION OF THE RELIGOUS FOLKS IS "faith" and "space daddy did it, otherwise, it makes no sense" - not "we don't have enough facts, so let's move on with our lives".

Pure and simple. You can dress it up in "intelligent design" and "mathematical improbabilities" just like our buddy Just Thinking does and childish "adamh" and "Will Graham" "religous Crazies" talk.

It call comes down to "what story makes sense" to me - for some it is fairy tales, for others a story of facts and what can be proven.

Susan

About fundamentalism: it sounds like maybe the Christians on this blog are coming around to being able to discuss, a little more objectively than they could before, a spectrum with fundamentalism at one end and questing at the other.

A Theist is absolutely right that there is no "one" kind of fundamentalist. And here I will add, again, that it is a matter of degrees. People at the exteme fundamentalist end of the spectrum are quite tightly-tied to what they see as the fundamentals of their particular world view ("My mind's made up -- don't confuse me with the facts!").

And most of us are tied to something -- but there are variations as to how tightly the strings are wound, so some of us allow ourselves more room to grow and change as we take in new information (and of course how tightly-fundamentalist we are affects how willing we are to take in and consider new information with an open mind).

As most of you are aware, I feel the most learning happens when we are willing to keep inching ever-closer to the questing end of the spectrum. The more open I can be to the possibility of discovering that any one of my theories is wrong or incomplete, the more free I am to keep learning and growing, and getting closer to Truth.

And the reason that you hear me talking about Christian fundamentalism, and not Atheist or Muslim or Jewish fundamentalism, is simply that Christianity is what I grew up in, what I've experienced, and what I know something about. And of course it engenders stronger feelings in me because it was my main influence growing up.

Will Graham

Susan, where did I deny the Holocaust or say that it did not happen under Hitler's reign?

I asked for an original document or even a copy signed by Hitler indicating he ordered the Holocaust.

In fifty years, there will be no witnessess, and evidence can be faked.

If Bart Ehrman can crow about original documents, so can I!

Red Biddy claims to have the proof, but of course offers nothing. (The Nuremberg laws do not authorize the Holocaust Bill is talking about.)

Will Graham

KCFREETHINKER (IGGY) knows that the "Big Bang" is a modern creation myth. Stephen Hawking points out that the laws of physics bread down, as we understand them, at that point and we don't know what the hell it was.

But the little Russian continues on his merry way, continuing to imagine that the propaganda techniques of the defunct government he grew up under, and was "educated" under, will continue to work and work her.

Certifiable.

Susan

Red Biddy -- I just remembered your question from yesterday. We've yet to read any Phillip Pullman books -- but we enjoyed watching the "Golden Compass" movie a few months back.

My older daughter actually watched it a couple of times and liked it -- except that in the movie they pronounce "daemon" (the word used for each human's special companion, or soul) as "demon," and that kind of bothered her (it did me, too). If we ever read the books we'll probably just say "damon," as the name Damon or Daemon is pronounced.

Lynne - www.kcfreethinkers.org

Will,

I don't know who Bart Ehrman is, but Michael Shermer wrote a chapter debunking holocaust denial in his book, "Why People Believe Weird Things." It's a very good book, and the chapter explaining why holocaust denial is a "weird" belief, rather than a rational one, should tell you all you might want to know.

Lynne - www.kcfreethinkers.org

Bill wrote: "...bad ideas are dangerous and can lead to death and destruction."

Can an atheist like me say "Amen"? Because that is just so true. And I think a good general rule is that if following an idea requires you to hate a group of people or to neglect the needs of your kids or anything else that is demonstrably bad for people, then it's a bad idea.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Bill,

I am surprised you are suprised at the poll? You have been around this religous game for a while,so you know how it works.

When you are brainwashed all your life in "fairy tales" (in this Islamic case it is "political/religoius blend") it is no wonder that people will reject anythning that goes against their upbringing and what they know and have been spoon fed.

Come on, what else is new? - To me as "a new atheist" :o) all this religous blabber makes no sense - it's like looking for leprechauns in my back yard.

I'd actually rather call myself "ap-atheist" - I really don't give a hoot about religion - just as long as religous people keep their "leprechaun like" Holy Spirits that insiminate virgins to themsleves - they can even hug them (both virgins and leprechauns :o).

I beleive Just Thinking and other "religous crazies" know the time and numbers are wokring against them - they will invoke high literary grounds and knowledge of the Bible and KNOWING THE MIND OF GOD WHEN IT COMES TO THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS vs. acknoledging THEY CAN ONLY "GUESS" what the mind of god is - if she is there ;O)

Faith is all there is left...

Last year it really fun to have a Presbytirian Minsiter admit that he will have no choice but to accept that aliens created the world when they can demonstrate it to him. We started with "NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE MY MIND ABOUT GAWD" and ended up in "YES, I SEE YOUR POINT THAT YOU MAYBE RIGHT AND I CAN BE DELUSIONAL BUT MY FAITH KEEPS ME ON COURSE".

Ouch...

Happy Memorial Day to everyone! Don't forget there are atheists in the foxholes!

Susan

So, Will, I guess you are saying that someday there will be no more "proof" of the Holocaust than there is of Christianity. If one kind of evidence can be faked, then so can another. Maybe what it all boils down to, is us raising our children to be questors for truth, rather than teaching them that everything they believe and are is like a "house of cards" that will come crumbling down if the factuality of one thing comes under fire.

When children are free to seek truth, they get to know others with a pretty open mind. You know, that song from South Pacific that goes "You have to be carefully taught" (prejudice)? I think raising our future generations to be both critcal thinkers and open-minded, is the best insurance against a future Holocaust.

It may seem like an oxymoron to talk about critical thinking and open-mindedness in the same sentence -- but I see the two qualitites as going hand-in-hand. Closed-minded people tend to have little confidence in their, or humanity's, capacity to think critically, and that's why they encourage children to swallow their teachings whole, but then to close their minds against alternate points of view.

In contrast, open-minded people have great confidence in human minds that are allowed to function to capacity. So they will encourage discussion and debate of a variety of ideas. I kind of see closed-mindedness as synonymous with fundamentalism, and open-mindedness as synonomous with questing ... and, again, I say the closer we can all stretch ourselves toward the questing, open-minded end of the spectrum, the better we will be at remaining lifelong learners.

And the more lifelong learners there are, the less likelihood there is of another atrocity like the Holocaust.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Susan, when you ALLOW SOMEONE TO BE A "QUESTOR FOR TRUTH" - this means NOTHING IS SACRED AND ALWAYS QUESTIONABLE.

This is why religious Xian crazies are so opposed to teaching all religions in public schools as part of a curriculum as well as teaching good solid sex education.

When you show them that even Xian kids will have sex at the same rate as non Xian and will have actually higher STD levels and practice anal/oral sex in higher numbers and also WILL FORGET IN 3-5 YEARS that they took a pledge of absinennce, it is a no brainer - RELIGOUS CRAZIES WILL QUICKLY RESORT TO "MORALITY" AND "ABSOLUTES" ARGUEMNET OF THEIR SPACE DADDY.

When facts are at hand, only faith remains...

The same goes for evolution and origins of the Universe, I don't know, neither do crazy Christians...

Saw a bumper sticker once "Evolution works, bitches!" :o) - had a good laugh at it.

"Creationism doesn't work, bitches!" - only in your brain :o)

Happy Memorial Day everyone!

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

Paul Haughey had some interesting things to say about churches today in the Star Faith Walk section. He begins:
“When I moved to midtown Kansas City four years ago, I received dozens of letters from local churches inviting me to visit them. I took the time to write a letter to every church that contacted me.

My first question was: Do you have an anti-discrimination policy? I explained that I am not a person of color, a woman or gay. However, I do not support organizations, especially religious ones, who are prejudiced.
I did not receive a single response from any of these congregations.”

This is exactly the kind of responses I get when I respond to church invitation mail. NOTHING! One church in particular advertises “Where miracles Happen” each week in the KC Star Faith section. In my first email I said I am very interested in miracles and asked for a reply, even left my phone number. Nothing. I tried again – thinking there might be an error on my part - still nothing. Figuring I would never hear from them I had some fun. In my next email I asked when was the best time to come for a miracle. Is Sunday morning better than Sunday night? Or is Wednesday evening better than Sunday? No answer. Well, that tells me miracles must not happen at their church or I surely would have heard from them.

Anyway, here is Paul Haughey’s entire article:
Why I remain ‘spiritually independent’
http://www.kansascity.com/656/story/1212208.html

Susan I agree that Jt likes to ‘try’ to anger me, but he never does…I came across a Daniel Dennett interview on his “Breaking the Spell” book and he does a fair job explaining anger at religion. It is the first video. Great book by the way.

Religion Vs Atheism - Daniel Dennett on CCTV "Highlights"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUqFUl8nS_g

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Don't forget to tune in/record "Inherit The Wind" on PBS today - about the Tennessee Monkey Trial in the 20's.

Also, too late to mention, but tonight 7 p.m. there is a "reading group" at BlackDog Coffee House in Lenexa. Anyting worthwhile is going to be discussed.

Xins are welcome. Crazy or not.

Jews are welcome. Crazy or not.

Muslims are welcom. Crazy or not.

Atheists are welcome. New or Old age.

Deists are welcome.

God & Jesus are welcome to come too.

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