Responding to genocide: 2-13-09
Talking to undo fear: 2-16-09

A hopeful religious escapee: 2-14/15-09

When Flora Jessop (pictured here) hitched a ride to Kansas City as a runaway teen-age bride in the 1980s, she was a mess. Just imagine:


* She was one of 28 children born to her father and his three wives inside a community of the polygamist Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (FLDS), a sect that broke away from Mormonism.

* She feared that her father, who she says had sexually and emotionally abused her for years, would find her where she had been temporarily hiding in Las Vegas and drag her back to her large, in-bred family.

* She was broke and knew no one here in Kansas City.

* She had recently left her teen-age husband, who was also her cousin.

But Kansas City proved to be a Godsend to her. As she told me when we spoke by phone a few days ago about her new book, Church of LIes, "I learned to believe in people in Kansas City. I learned to believe in good again. Kansas City has a very special place in my heart."

Church of Lies, which Flora wrote with help from author Paul T. Brown, is a compelling and heartbreaking -- but hopeful -- read. It describes life behind the Polygamist Curtain in the twin towns of Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah. Many of the residents of those towns have since moved to Eldorado, Texas. It was that community that Texas child protection authorities raided last year after allegations of child abuse, polygamy and underage marriage.

Flora's two-year Kansas City interlude found her living first in Raytown and later near 35th and Troost. She worked odd jobs, first in a grocery store where she met Terri Routh (now Stine), a friend she's still close to today, and later as a waitress. But, as Flora told me, it was in Kansas City where she also "got involved with drugs." Indeed, the book describes her life-threatening descent into cocaine and alcohol abuse.

Flora lived with Terri and her family off and on during her stay in Kansas City, and nothing about the experience was easy for Terri.

"I got the rollercoaster ride," Terri told me, able to laugh about it now. "I thought she was crazy."

In fact, Terri didn't believe the stories Flora told of her FLDS life -- until, that is, a crew from the CBS news shows "60 Minutes" showed up at Terri's house with Flora's permission to interview her about the polygamous life from which she came.

What Flora had to say to CBS -- and what she continues to say in her new book -- about the FLDS is devastating. To her it's a sect that teaches people to be afraid of God and to abide by insanely rigid rules that favor males who follow a powerful "prophet." Underage girls get married off to become the third or fifth wife of much older men and then they begin having baby after baby with almost no medical care. Flora's mother had to give up several of her own babies to be reared by someone else in the community.

All of that led to Flora's determination to escape. It took several tries, but finally she succeeded.

Because of FLDS doctrine, she told me, "I absolutely hated God. The conscious decision I had to come to was that I was willing to damn myself for eternity to escape the pain."

Flora, now a Phoenix resident, no longer believes she's going to hell for escaping the FLDS and she's been working hard for years with the approval of her understanding husband to help other girls escape the FLDS and to find new lives.

Some people believe that all FLDS beliefs and actions are protected as matters of religious freedom guaranteed by the Constitution. Flora is right to see things differently: "Religious freedom is not the right to harm. When that belief becomes harm to others, there's a line that is drawn. I don't believe the freedom to practice religion is the freedom to abuse. They (FLDS leaders) believe they are above man's laws."

Today Flora does not belong to any church but has a deep faith in a God quite different from the one the FLDS taught her about: "I discovered that God was not the evil monster that I had been raised with."

As for her rebellious nature: "I think God gave it to me."

(For a Web site maintained by the FLDS itself, click here. For an outside observer's description of the FLDS, click here. For a recent news story about the FLDS, click here.)

* * *



The strict Wahhabi religious leaders of Saudi Arabia don't want the kingdom's Muslim citizens to celebrate St. Valentine's Day. But they have a hard time enforcing the rules, as this report suggests. No surprise. In my experience, romantic love trumps theological doctrine almost every time in almost every culture. Maybe even among some FLDS followers.

* * *

AND A REMINDER: The instructions and rules for posting comments here can be found under the "Check this out" headline on the right side of this page. But in brief: Comments should not exceed 300 words and you may post no more than five times a day. Thanks. Bill.


adam harrison

Gay marriage is here.

Why not polygamy? (After all, we already have serial polygamy...marriage, no fault divorce, marriage, no fault divorce, marriage, no fault divorce...etc.)

Who is some moral relativist like you or the atheists to judge?

adam harrison

And whats this underage marriage stuff?

Its all relative, pun intended...state laws vary; it seems it should depend on the consent and maturity of the parties.

It sure isn't up to some atheist relativist to pass judgment! LOL!

adam harrison

And about the Muslims...

COLE MORGAN! Yeah, you! When are you and your little buddy gonna attend a Koran study at a Mosque?

There is a powerful Muslim community in Kansas City! When you gonna take your atheistic evangelism to them? And take old man NORM with you...he did a great job giving em "what for" last year at the Community of Reason Meeting!

You ought to review the video of that for tips. Call Greg Swartz. That guy records everything.

adam harrison

Former atheist on religion, science and politics...and well educated on atheist tactics:

Iggy -

FLASH NEWS!!! - Greg Lammers, MO DIRECTOR FOR AMERICAN ATHEISTS will be joining us for Sat 7 p.m. viewing and discussion of "Root of All Evil" by Richard Dawkins. We'll be at Black Dog Coffee House in Lenexa - check out calendar

Please, make plans to attend and have a great chat over the movie as we always do! - we pause it whenever someone has something to say or vent or whatever :o) Normally a 40 min movie lasts us 1.5-2 hours :o)


Greg will be interviewed by "Voice of Reason" on KKFI 90.1 FM 7-8 a.m. Sunday morning in midtown. So, we'll be moving breakfast from Lenexa to Midtown (no location yet, it maybe at Chubby's or First Watch - no news yet). E-mail us again to confirm you'll be coming to midtown, so I can get you the update.

Saturday, February 14
9:00am HMS Beagle: "Darwin: His life and times" for K-3rd grade
9:30am Darwin Day-KU's Natural History Museum
3:00pm Addicted to Something? - Weekly SOS Meetup
7:00pm Movie-"Root of All Evil" Part 1 - SPECIAL GUEST, GREG LAMMERS, MO Director for American Atheists

Sunday, February 15
7:00am Radio-"Voice of Reason"
10:00am COR: Skeptical Religion: Egyptian Pantheon
11:00am Science & Sci-Fi Book Club
11:15am COR: Skeptical Religion: Jesus
12:30pm COR informal chat
1:00pm COR: 5th annual Todd Kelso Memorial Darwin Day Lecture
2:00pm St. Joseph Atheists & Agnostics

Iggy -

Creationists don't deserve credence--especially from Forbes.
by Jerry Coyne, - the link to article below

Comments of interest - "To claim evolution is bogus outright is tantamount to claiming the Theory of gravity is bogus after getting hit in the face with bird sh.t. Both statements leave you looking foolish. "

""Blah Blah Blah. Satan has been trying to blind people from the truth for over 2,000 years. Satans biggest victory has been over the minds of people. All satan has to do is keep people in unbelief and therefor nobody has to fear sin, and the result is a world full of evil and corruption, which is just what satan wants. Sadly we only have one chance and it's too late the second after you die. One thing we can say about satan is he has become very succesfull in blinding peoples minds."

"Publications, universities, and other such platforms really do have to start ignoring these clowns. Let them preach their nonsense in their churches. "

"When satan is evoked what they are telling you is that you are considered less than human. That way rational thought is tucked neatly away and the perceived threat can be dealt with."

Teaching children Creationism or ID as an alternative to Darwinism is akin to teaching Ptolemeic astronomy as a viable alternative to Copernican. (And in some Catholic schools they used to do that until very recently, rather than admit their persecution of Galileo was wrong.)

Teaching children Creationism or ID as an alternative to Darwinism is akin to teaching astrology as a viable alternative to astronomy.

Teaching children Creationism or ID as an alternative to Darwinism is akin to teaching the humours as a viable alternative to endocrinology. (And they seem to do that in Steiner Schools.)

But if you want a language analogy;

Teaching children Creationism or ID as an alternative to Darwinism is akin to teaching Klingon as a viable alternative to French.,3599,Creationists-dont-deserve-credence--especially-from-Forbes,Jerry-Coyne-Forbescom

Dolores Lear

Happy Valentines's Day.

"In my experience, romantic love trumps theological doctrine almost every time in almost every culture."

Where did romantic love come from? The Lord God? Adam and Eve? Satan?

God's Love is Agape Equal Love of All of our Brothers/Sisters of Life, not the Unequal Lust of Romantic Love, that trumps theological doctrine every time, in every culture.

Even Humans with Celibate Agape Love of God, Die in a Body Reproduced in Male Flesh Lust in the Female for Heterosexual Body Birth. Female Flesh Lust does not Reproduce a Child.

'God', Our High Tech Clone Ancestors, the 'us' in Genesis 1:26, did the Reproducing of Life on Earth, as we Know it.

Genesis 1: 26. KJV. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Genesis 2:18. "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."

Genesis 2:21,22. "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman."

Humans today, with High Tech Knowledge, Know Humans can be put in a deep sleep, by High Tech, to operate on them.


Dolores Lear

Humans today, Know how to Reproduce a Human Fetus in the lab, and Clone Animals supernaturally by High Tech Science.

Humans put the fetus back in the Female Womb, instead of a High Tech Womb like 'Us', the Lord God.

The Clone Caretakers, the Lord God Reproduced, had the same Genetic and Physical Makeup, Reproduced in the 'Higher Nature', of High Tech Science Reproduction.

The Clones were Not Reproduced by the 'Lower Nature' of Male Heterosexual Lust, or they would surely Die.

Genesis 3:4. "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:"

The woman and male did Reproduce by the Lower Nature of Male Lust. The Children the Clones Reproduced, did Die; and so did the Original Adult Clone Human Colony.

Humans have the Higher Knowledge of the 'Us' Male and Female Gods, in our Image. Humans do travel up in the air, and out into Space like the Gods, in Religious Scriptures and Myth.

Humans do put people in a deep sleep, and reproduce Human Fetus' in the lab, without the Male Act to the Female. The immaculate conception fetus, is put into the female womb.

Polluting our Eco System with Toxic and Nuclear Waste, and making Nuclear Bombs, is the Abomination of Desolation to a Planet.

Romantic Love made Cain, Abel, Seth, Daughters, and all Killer Humans Born by Heterosexual Male Lust ever since.

Since the 1900s, the Earth's population was 1 Billion. After the Sexual Revolution of Romantic Love, for 100 years, Earth's Population is 7 Billion and growing by leaps and bounds.

Romantic Parents, and the Environment a Child is born into, does establish the Destiny of Life on Our Home Planet:

Physical Death, or, Eternal Physical Life After Birth, on Planets and in Spaceships.

Iggy -

Please, welcome Susan to the blog!

We met her last week at the Darwin Day home schooling event and looks like her kids had a blast there. We had 4 stations at the KCMO Community Center - several tables covered with many fossils by a wife/husband team of paleontology enthusiasts who do this as part of a club - he spoke about plate techtonics, magnetism in lava flows, same species of fossils spread across continents that are now separated by thousands of miles in the same strate, Cole manned an evolution paper game & coloring table, another member of KCFreeThinkers did an introduction to Darwin and also handled cookie decorating table, while I ran a short (1-2 min) evolutionary videos station where kids discussed why animals may look this way (imaginary alien and also Earth animals)

Looks like it was fun for the kids and very educational. The responses the organizer recieved were really great and encouraging. We plan on doing it again in November for 150th Anniversary of "Origins of Species"

If anyone on this blog would like to be put on the mailing list for this event, e-mail
The Catholic gift just keep on giving...

This article in KCStar "Intelligent design to be topic at Vatican meeting" poses rather perplexing questions.

Evolution is accepted by Catholic church as basically a fact, or if you want to split hairs "more than just a hypothesis" - the next level of "more than just a hypothesis" is "theory/body of knowledge unifying all facts, experiments into one cohesive explanation which allows to make predictions" - i.e. ESTABLISHED FACTS & COMMONLY ACCEPTED REALITY OF SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION.

Then you hear from the Church that evolution and theology don't contradict each other. OK, for laymen like me, what does "no contradiction" do to Genesis? What does it do to humans being animals? What does it do to a god who talks to human animals (kind of robots

It's good to see the Vatican is looking into intelligent design. Didn't God say He created us from the dust of the ground (also a rib) and in His image? Christians certainly should believe it since God said it and He was a witness to it!

Joe Barone

Thanks for your marvelous review of Flora Jessop's book. I've put it on my Amazon list.

Will Graham

Interesting to read Iggy comparing humans to robots; of course, in his worldview, our organic brains function according to the laws of chemistry and physics just like everything else so that is what we are.

I am suprised that he admits it so openly, and doesn't try to slip in that free will, stuff relativists love!

It also suits the atheists agenda; robots would be much easier to manipulate...or just get rid of...than sentient beings with some kind of messy, inconvenient, free will!

Iggy -

On Sunday, January 25, 2009 CBS 60 Minutes aired a segment about Israel's policies (this documentary clearly points to apartheid) against Palestinians. The piece is by Senior CBS Foreign Correspondent Bob Simon, who is Jewish living outside Tel-Aviv and produced by Robert G, Anderson

Part 1
Part 2
SilverSmith wrote>>>>>>>And I think your oversimplification of the issue of homosexuality is misplaced. A priest is able to offer therapeutic assistance to the penitent while not denying the fact that homosexuality is a disordered passion (not a sin in itself).

I love to pick out "silver" and "diamond in the rough" pieces out of theistic thinking...

By saying "disordered passion" you are "passing judgmeents" and your god tells you not to judge and leave it to him. This is #1. #2. If this person who has "disordered passion" has been created by god, then it is NOT "disorderd" (not chaotic a) and b) it's "ordered" by your space daddy) and you need to leave it allow - see #1 - hence you are in the Catch 22 of a religous thinking and only "free will" is a "get out of jail" ticket for you which is also determined by #2.

Religious "illogisms" of this kind are very telling of the mind set that religous folks (including moderate/secular or "normal" Xians as I call them).

I hope you are beginning to see how important it is for "religous" people to constrain their "delusions" and mold them to reality. You see, you don't see too many Wiccans, Astrologers, Alchemists and Psychic Readers prosletyzing their beliefs onto the rest of the world. Xians on orders of their space daddy do it as this is taken for granted. I beleive, rationality among Xians may eventually take hold and statments like yours will be considred to be on the fringe and totally off the wall. But again, it will take a long time, while eradicating faith is impossible, morphing it into something different (spritiual/deistic/10 commandments only based/golden rule Christianity) is quite possible and is alredy taking place among many Xian churches. Change is uncomfortable, get comfortable with this notion.

Will Graham

By the way Iggy, are the "Christian trolls" opposed to Jew trolls or black trolls, or whatever...all invited to the movie?

If you don't respond, we will assume the answer is YES! Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

(I'll save these posts for confirmation of your acceptance.)

Red Biddy

Regarding polygamy I've sometimes wondered how do the men who have multiple "wives" and children, support them ? Do they work or do they just place their dependents on welfare (AFDC) as single Moms as they are not really legally married to any of them ?
A light hearted view of "the Principle" of polygamy can be enjoyed by watching the HBO series "Big Love" now in its second season. It's a complete hoot but also explains a great deal about the Mormon religion particularly regarding the necessity of having a male priesthood without which women cannot hope for family life in the next world.
Someone on this page critiziced me as being anti-semitic for my criticism of the old (male) Jewish prayer thanking God for not making him a woman. This was no anti- semitic remark per se although the offending prayer is indeed Judaic in origin - my remark was anti ALL MALE DOMINATED religions in which women have been forced to take a subservient role!
I'm sure the dirty old men of the FLDS praise God every day for not making them women although the younger guys who get kicked out of the group as being unwanted competition, might wish they were girls so they could stay!

Dolores Lear

Red Biddy.

The Female was kicked out of Equality with the Male in the Garden of Eden when she reproduced Children.

They were Reproduced Equal Male and Female Clones. The female was made from the male rib, and that can only be done by High Tech Science.

Ever since women have been subjected to the male in sex, amd she was tied up with Children most of her Lifetime all female Life situations were Unequal, unless married to a King, and that was also Unequal. Goddesses did not have Husbands usually.

So until Humans again Accept High Tech Science Reproduction as the Equal Higher Nature of the Human Species, the Female will remain the Baby Maker, and subjected to the Male domination.

Of the lord jesus christ. Sort a hypnotic. Of the lord jesus christ,,,of the lord jesus christ….of the lord jesus christ. There’s no place like home…there’s no place like home…there’s no place like home. Oh, Dorthy how I miss you. Could have a brain washing affect, huh? Not for the tin man of course.

Praying before meals, before rituals like weddings and funerals (no comparisons intended) kneeling beside your bed, so those imaginary bedbugs don’t bite.

Funny how we get programmed not to walk under ladders, or fear a black cat walking in front of us. Elevators without 13th floors. Does anyone out there get it?

I fear Michael Shermer may be correct. Are we born superstitious? Is not all this made up stuff just passing on memes to the next generation? Isn’t it all silly? Is the real world that disappointing?

I know most of you who have been reading in the last few months may think I’m an atheist. This is so funny that I have duped you.

I have studied christianity to a point of boredom, (and the other two abrahamic religions), but I do enjoy atheists.

I have my own belief like Dolores, bless her heart, but once I traveled at that 17,500 mph cycle, 7 times, seven is lucky for me, after I traveled the galaxies I have discovered my true calling,,,,the Invisible Purple Unicorn Theory. She is all I need. This is ‘my’ personal experience, Amy Sterling.

But, Amy, maybe I’m only imagining this, seeing I may have asperger syndrome.

Na Nu, Na Nu….may the force be with you.

Peace For the Sake of the Universe Cole

Will Graham

Thats an amusing post, Cole. You are a lying sack, of course, but its still funny! And whats funny is how OFTEN you have to use lies...jokes, of course, but still make your point.

Speaking of hypnotic phrases...the root of all evil...the root of all evil...the root of all evil...ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....the root of all evil...

By the way, have you been drinking this afternoon? Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

Will Graham

Cole Morgan, you have not studied your lessons!

By the way, when are you and Iggy gonna take your gig to a MOSQUE!!!



What a harrowing story Flora has - and it's really cool that she was able to heal and find some community in Kansas City, Bill.

We discussed the polygamy kids from the FLDS encampment last year in class. Most students couldn't imagine what the kids had been through or were going through, and it was just one of those things that shocked everyone.

She is very courageous for speaking out. It's probably pretty dangerous for her and she's probably fortunate that the FLDS elders have to spend all their time keeping their current flocks in line and dealing with the authorities rather than going after her.

Iggy, I’m feeling a little ornery today. The lack of intelligence design people are only one imaginary step above creationists.

My personal Invisible Purple Unicorn Theory totally accepts evolution. That is how She came into existence, just like everything else, She is physically part of it. But She has magical powers. She doesn’t use these much, which truly makes Her mysterious.

It’s never ending with those who have a personal god they have to worship 24/7. They want to spread such intolerance. I don’t see the crazies changing much, Iggy. Their belief is of suffering and guilt. And that pie in the sky dream of worshipping their lord 24/7. That’s a good nick name, the 24/7 club. What do you think?

So, if adamh and eve had not sinned would we all now be living in the garden of lilith? What would be our purpose if everything was prefect and we had everything we needed just by reaching for it? What would we have to do?

I heard on bott radio the other day the serpent was not a snake. It was only a metaphor for satan. If no ‘one’ person knows how to interpret the bible, how do all of them abide by the rules? Just billions of interpretations! On top of all that, there are two other abrahamic beliefs.

This is so confusing and unfair to others.

I’ll stick with Her. Oh yeah, I’m not drinking…yet. Later

Peace For the Sake of Unicorn Cole

Iggy -


Poligamist societies cannot survive numbers wise for long term with even 2 wives per man. I believe in US the ratio of males/females born is almost 50/50 (give or take a couple of %) With 2 wives per one man and let's say 20 years age for first wife in 40 years a "colony" of "crazy Christian poligamists" should deplete all its women for each younger man. I don't know if younger men can take older women or not, but even if older men die out at age 60 and their younger wives (some relatively younger compared to the younger men) become available this still will not be enough of an attricion rate to sustain a community. I don't know the actual numbers (I am sure ther is research on that) but "normal" critical thinking of the male cult members coupled with hormones will have a much higher "drop out rate" than women cult members.

Cole, how do you know the color of your "pink" unicorn if she is invisible? Did she reveal herself to you or you were able to see it in the "quantum level" as Just Thinking was suggesting the god is hiding? Then you must be a god in the making? Or a "closet" Mormon who will become a god when he/she dies?

First draft of Neanderthal genome is unveiled
by New Scientist

I loved the comment to this article - "From what I've learned and observed of homo sapiens history, our ancient ancestors probably systemically wiped them out because they worshipped the wrong cave bear." :o),3601,First-draft-of-Neanderthal-genome-is-unveiled,New-Scientist

Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 1). There are dozens of videos by this guy - you can see them by clicking on top right hand button.

If you are a creationist (especially a Young Earth Creationist), please, laugh responsibly and don't cry when you are mocked. Remember, Jesus told you you will be mocked and laughed at. Prophesies are being fulfilled, the end of the world is neigh (as it has been for 2,000+ years).

adam harrison

American Atheists is apparently located in Missouri, or at least has a new director. He seems to be a talented guy, so why would he asscotiate himself with an organization founded by Madylyn Murray O'Hair? Brian Lebeau, a former Professor at UMKC, spoke at a COR meeting a few weeks ago and described her quite well. She was a vicious racist, Jew hating, homosexual hating, financially manipulating, ethically challenged, classless, hate monger.

The anti Jew focus seems to be increasinging among the atheists, and Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens are known for ranting about the "Notorious Jewish Lobby", blaming the Jews, and wishing they had beed wiped out in ancient times.

And on these and a local board, atheists are blaming the Jewish state for trying to survive, while ignoring the Arab attempts to wipe the Jews from the face of the earth. The Iranian leader has even said that outright.

Atheists here have even claimed Hitler was Jewish, in total ignorance of history.

adam harrison

Article on antitheism...with special sections on MILITANT ATHEISM.

The references to Lenin are quite revealing.

The atheists can't hide it, its out there...


Iggy, She is not pink, but purple. (I believe Chuck has a pink unicorn.) I know because She told me. How else would I know She is purple?

Here is some more laughing at creationists/ID crazies:

I certainly like following Obama’s path of reason. His logic and rational seems very compatible with my belief in the Invisible Purple Unicorn Theory…lets move forward in promotion of education and science. We must move on, away from ancient beliefs. From his 2006 speech until this recent Darwin Day speech is so encouraging, She agrees….

Obama in 2006

Obama recently

Remember, Iggy, jesus mocked the jews too.


It is very easy to be duped. Nothing to be ashamed of. Shame sucks. I think in many humans it may be part of their nature. I am not a scientist, but evidence and rational shows people are kind a nutty. Frontal lobe seizures may be more common than I have imagined. And there are those selflessness types out there in need of support from primitive, repetitive, duplicating fractals to carry on those memes.

In vast parts of the orient they leave out the word for 4 instead of 13 like us.

…what follows is funny no matter what mind set you are in:

The Invisible Rope

Holiday Video

Peace For the Sake of Fun Cole

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