« Why weddings matter: 10-24-08 | Main | Rethinking St. Paul: 10-27-08 »

October 25, 2008


Joe Barone

"Portraying God in human terms is always risky..." There's no other way to do it except to say God is unknowable.


A Friend and I have been fortunate to be invited to Bible Study. They knew we were Atheists and at ‘my’ first secession I was warmly welcomed and the conversation was educating from both sides. ‘In The Beginning’ we made small talk of worldviews, personal stuff and had coffee as people trickled in. It’s interesting to see how others who believe in something I don’t, explain this. I find it fascinating how people learn to love a God. And follow this God when there are so many interpretations of each verse, among 1000s of sects of Christianity. This, to me, is confusing. The most interesting topic discussed, for me, was how they know a vision is from God or trickery from Satan. One member claimed they will present a proven method. I can hardly wait. “Every time you read it, or say it, you make another copy in your brain.” Say it to yourself several times. This is how I see it: How we live depends where we are born, family genetics and what we are taught. ‘Some’ venture out-and learn from many sides and formulate a personal view in the Natural World, not a Supernatural One. “For the sake of goodness.” Cole

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org


There were surveys (I think one of them was by a concervative Christian Barna organization) that 95% have NEVER READ THE BIBLE FULLY.

Having attended Bible Studies with Presbytiraians and Lutherans one can clearly see that they have a selective reading of the Bible based... on the Bible. The Bible is true because the Bible says so!

Circular logic at its best. Spiderman is real because he lives in NYC. The Bible is real because there are some historical facts.

Well, let me throw this one at you. Check out Testament of Solomon (TOS) which was rejected by the Council of Nicea and then ponder on why Jesus when excecrising demons used the name of Solomon. Turns out that in the widely circulating TOS in Jesus' times and actually even in 400-500 BCE there was a document WORSHIPPED by Jews in which Solomon was a magician, sourcerer and user of a certain ring that summoned demons and he commanded them to build a temple in Jerusalem and Jerusalem as well. You will see that Jesus is actually referrign to "the greatest king" in the concept of sourcery and magic when he himslef was driving demons out of people.

Christians do not know the history of their religion, they are brainwashed by what is told them at Sunday services by their minsters.

A simple reading of the Bile will tell you that Jesus says that kidneys and hearts are the thinking centers of humans - WHAT, JESUS DOESN'T KNOW THAT IT IS BRAIN?

Come, on people! Stop basing your life on a Harry Potter look alike book.

May Hannibal Lector clone you a new brain!

Dolores Lear

"God's Daily Promise" 10/25/08.
This week's promise: God will conquer death.
Are you living like God conquered death?
"Praise the Lord! Praise the name of the Lord!. Psalm 135:1 NLT"

Which Lord is this? For All the Humans that Love God, Why are there so many Lords, and so much Killing? If God Conquered Death, why do we still all Die? If not from Sickness, than in War.

Religious Teaching? Humans will Die, Conquer Death, Rise Again in the same Body, And Live Forever? With our High Tech Knowledge today, we Know the Dead Bodies return to the Elements.

We have High Tech Science, to correct many of the Illnesses and Accidents that happen, so we do avoid Death for awhile, but Death is still not Conquered.

Jesus a Human is Alive, not Dead. He is Physically in Space/Heaven, in a Spaceship, or on another Planet.

Today, Humans can Reproduce a Human fetus in the lab, and do Know how to Clone animals, and correct some defects with stem cell research.

It is Possible with High Tech Science, for Humans to Live Forever, Take Care of their Planet, Travel in Space, and Colonize Planets like the Gods did, 'in our Image'.

In Time, Humans can correct their Defects, and as long as they stop Killing Each Other, and before they destroy their Eco System.

Genesis is about High Tech Perfect Human 'Gods'/Angels, that travel in Space, Colonize Planets, and have Eternal Physical Life After Birth. Jesus was 'regenerated' by them, and went with them, Alive.

Jesus will return with Our High Tech Ancestors, at the Judgment Day, before Humans Finish Killing their Earth Home. Our Ancestors and Jesus, will take a New Regenerated Perfect Human Colony to a new Planet, as it was 'in the beginning', on Earth.

adam harrison

The Shack is an intriguing book; for a discussion of it and many other subjects from cosmology, evolution, science and religion, atheism in politics visit one of the many groups at First United Methodist Church of the Resurrecton. www.cor.org

adam harrison

Dan Barker will be visitng the Freethinkers this fall. Here is more information on Dan...


Kansas Bob

"not having all the answers but being willing to live with the questions"

..well said Bill


Nice tribute to Mahalia Jackson, Bill. It happens that at the Wednesday night service at my church this week, an African-American singer substituted for the very fine white voice who normally contributes. It was a reminder of that special something that can be brought to a service and to a song.

Years ago I attended a racism retreat in the South, during which there were some lively and passionate exchanges. At one point, frustrated and disgusted, an African-American woman yelled at a white, "Can't you white people stop making everything about your head and use your heart?"

That seems to me the difference and the beauty in the black approach to religion. There's a lot of heart involved and we whites could observe and learn a thing or two.


I suppose that everyone by now knows that I'm not all that fond of the concept of a Trinity, but I suppose that if it needs to be pursued, then a feminine non-white holy spirit is better than the normal white male, who gets the credit.

My question for the all who engage in Trinitarian religions is simply, "Why?". What's the need to divide up an omnipotent power and personify it thrice, unless you're trying to reach people who come out of paganism and the attendant notion of multi-Gods.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

THIS WEEKEND FREETHINKING ACTIVITIES AROUND KC For more city wide freethinking activities in Kansas City visit http://www.KCFreeThinkers.org/calendar.htm

Saturday, 1:00 p.m. - Ray McGovern & Bryce Lockwood (Sgt.), the sole surviving Marine from the attack on the USS Liberty. They will demonstrate that US policies in the Middle East arise in big lies, extortion and deceptions that continue in today's tenuous political climate due mostly to an uninformed--and misled citizenry.

The revelations Ray McGovern brings will awaken those conservatives who feel there are things very wrong--McGovern will give voice to those problems and invites religionists to be true to their values and seek to overturn those who blaspheme truth, mislead and murder in the name of greater security.

Saturday 7 p.m. - Science Movie Night "Humans 2.0 - Creating Gods" BBC Documentary about singularity/merger of humans and machines and future technologies

Sunday 7-8 a.m. is "Voice of Reason" - the only freethinking radio show in KC - KKFI 90.1 FM

Sunday 8 a.m. - Midtown breakfast with hosts of "Voice of Reason"

Sunday 10 a.m. - Skeptical Religious Study

Sunday 11 a.m. - Science & Sci-Fi Book Club

Sunday 1 p.m. - Community of Reason - Paul Donovan, a godless teacher at KCK school will be presenting at Community of Reason Sunday, Oct 26 1 p.m. about his experience as teacher and also talk about his book "Happily Godless". Paul is active in the Science Book Club and is a cool dude all around.

Sunday 3:30 p.m. - after Paul's Community of Reason presentation is a cross organizational meetup of all meetups in KC at Planet Sub on the Plaza. This is always fun, rowdy and informative! Don't miss it!

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

a theist wrote>>>> Nothing I have read convinces me that Obama is not
a Muslim -
a dangerous man -
totally unqualified to be president.

Oh, man... Your "theism" clearly shows through "irrationality" of your statement. You are "irrational" and you are "delusional" in at least one aspect - Obama is not a Muslim. You are not entirely convinced of it. You should also not be entirely convinced that mindless processess of chemistry and physics could not have created your brain that allows you to make these kind of "irrational conclusions".

Actually, to get a "rational perspective" on thinking, make plans for my talk some time in the future at one of our meetups "Why Peeing in the Shower Will Get Christians Closer to Heaven" and "Why god is an atheist". Acutally, we plan on making this a series of discussions on how "rationally" lead Christians out of the trap of "irationality".

Recently, one of the Christians I talked to openly admitted that they are not ready for "rational" discussion of faith because faith is so personal, that rationality is not applicable when you start parsing it verse by verse, e.g. as in the case of "validation of visions which are truly of god or satan". Now, we are entering the realm of magic, astrology, Tarot card and palm lines reading - then Testament of Solomon (TOS) is not that far from sourcery or "black/white magic" that one of the Jewish sects actually ascribed to Jesus as a magician.

May Hannibal Lector clone you misled misfits a new brain with a spark of "rationality"! Rmemeber, if you don't give up your heart and kidneys to him, you will spend 3 bln years in a pasta hell making pasta for us righteous folks. Then if you don't accept HL as your savior, your body will be processed into pasta and blood turned into spaghetti sauce for us to use it as a cleansing bond between us and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. May peace be upon him!

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

This morning walking my dog I ran into a lady walking two dogs. They got to know each other butts as always and she and I got to talk. Turned out that she walks the golden retriever that belongs to a nursing home right across the street from my subdivision. She does it daily with her own dog and has been doing it for a while since she used to volunteer there. One thing lead to another, it turned out she is starting a job in November and will not be able to walk the dog regularly. So, I said I can do it with my dog as I do it every day for 40-60 min anyway. We went to the nursing home, she introduced me to the social coordinator there, and tomorrow morning I am taking Charlie on a walk with my dog. When this lady and I were talking she said I was answer to her prayers, I said I was an atheist and she was thankful anyway. When parting she felt somewhat awkward apologizing for saying about prayer. I told her no problem and my dog and I trotted away.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org


How scientific ignorance of Sarah Palin of "autism research" and "genetic research"can hinder her proposal for "special needs kids programs" she proposed the other day. Research on fruit flies goes not only in Paris, France but also in many other colleges and universities, including UMKC - Community of Reason had a biology professor 4-6 months ago who was talking about it.

Here is the video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wezdbLqRnzs

So, without further due here is
the quote by Sara Palin from the video...

"Where does a lot of that earmark money end up anyway? [snip] You've heard about some of these pet projects they really don't make a whole lot of sense and sometimes these dollars go to projects that have little or nothing to do with the public good. Things like fruit fly research in Paris, France. I kid you not."


This blind, shortsighted ignoramus, this pretentious clod, mocks basic research and the international research community. You damn well better believe that there is research going on in animal models — what does she expect, that scientists should mutagenize human mothers and chop up baby brains for this work? — and countries like France and Germany and England and Canada and China and India and others are all respected participants in these efforts.

Yes, scientists work on fruit flies. Some of the most powerful tools in genetics and molecular biology are available in fruit flies, and these are animals that are particularly amenable to experimentation. Molecular genetics has revealed that humans share key molecules, the basic developmental toolkit, with all other animals, thanks to our shared evolutionary heritage (something else the wackaloon from Wasilla denies), and that we can use these other organisms to probe the fundamental mechanisms that underlie core processes in the formation of the nervous system — precisely the phenomena Palin claims are so important.

Dave Miller

"'Portraying God in human terms is always risky...' There's no other way to do it except to say God is unknowable."

That's profound, Joe. Thank you.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Countdown: Palin Clueless on Research Projects

Let us not forget that Palin thinks Jesus will come in her life time - ONLY RELIGIOUS DOGMA CAN TEACH THIS AND DISTRACT PEOPLE FROM WHAT MATTERS - it's been 2,000 some years since Jesus said his father's kingdom/his own coming was at hand. So, unless there is a 2,000+ years Jew whose generation has not passed yet, "irrationality of religion" shows again.

Religious people will find ways to circumvent rationality through their Bible interpretation and the whole apologetics field has been specifically created for it.

One thing is clear - religious dogma breeds misinterpretation of reality, pragmatism and rationality. Religion has to die out due its inherent dogma and irrationality when it comes to basic human rights, understanding of the world, laws of nature and just plain silliness of theism.

To fully comprehend why, you are welcome to join us for the Lutheran Bible study every Thursday at 9:30 - check calendar at http://www.KCFreeThinkers.org/calendar.htm for the reading of Acts chapters we are doing for next week.

Keith Olbermann reports on the latest gaffe made by Sarah Palin where she doesn't understand that research on fruit flies actually has been used to help special needs children among other troubles on the campaign trail today for the McCain camp. Richard Wolffe weighs in.


adam harrison

Cole, what your group should find embarrassing is one of your members running around quoting a mass murderer from fiction like Hannibal Lector and ranting about cloning new brains.

Yep, downright embarrassing.

Oh, he thinks it is so cute, but he does not realize that even people at the Community of Reason are fed up with it.

All his atheism shows is the truth of G.K.Chesterson's statement that "If a man professes not to believe in God, it does not mean he believes in nothing; it means he is capable of believing ANYTHING at all.".

Lets quit this kidding around:

If you want some REAL intellectual challenge come to one of the many Bible studies at the First United Metodist Church of the Resurrection. You might even ask to talk to Jeremy Mohn.

It would really be intersting to see your group try and challenge those guys.

Are ya up to it, buddy?

adam harrison

KCF makes many irrational and ILLOGICAL leaps.

For example, a criticism of Sarah Palin is not an argument against the existence of God, or even Christianity.

If KCF were truly LOGICAL, he would present his case for the mindless origin of the universe and life itself.

And yet he does not DARE try to LOGICALLY take on issues of Cosmology and Abiogenesis; in fact he knows he is not able to do so which is why he relies on ridicule and ad hominem, not realizing that while those tactics may be successful in the short run, they are not LOGICAL at all but merely examples of fallacious reasoning.

Come on Cole, quit kidding around and tangle intellectually with the big boys.

First United Methodist Church of the Resurection...take the time to look up Jeremy Mohn.

Dolores Lear

The GOD that made the Atom and ElectrMagnetic Elements, that make Life as we Know it, is Unknowable. Humans cannot make Elements of Life, only use them for Good or Evil.

Fallen Humans choose Evil, War and Nuclear Weapons. What is Godly or even Human about that?

The Lord God in our Image, that made Life on Earth and flew in the air in fiery chariots, are a High Tech Humam Peace Species. They are the Ancestors of the Human Species on Earth.

They did start Perfect Peace Human Equal Clones on Earth, by High Tech Science Birth. But, the Clones started Heterosexual Body Birth, that led to Misbred Humans.

That started Inequality, Inhumanity, Illnessess, Hate, Killing and a Monetary Basis for the Resources, with an Unsharing Lifestyle of Greed.

Our Ancestors will be Known when they visit Earth, before the Judgement Day Fire of the Killer and Polluter Fallen Species of Human.

They are Humans, in our Image, not some Weird Killing Aliens portrayed in our Science Fiction, and some UFO sightings. Some are probably robots.

Any way, Jesus is in the Image of the Father of Life on Earth, and that is Human, not a Spirit 'Being' or a Holy Spirit.

adam harrison

Cole, here is the contact info again...


Brind your intellectual challenges, even lay on the ridicule and ad hominems!

But can you REALLY deal with biblical criticism, cosmology, abiognesis, neuroscience, and ethics when you are discussing with people who are well informed?

Find out today!

adam harrison

To the "free"thinkers here who want to deal with a real challenge, try taking on the contenders at our blog!


Dolores Lear

Genesis 1:1. KJV. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

Our Atmosphere and land area.

Genesis 1:26a. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

'Us' means more than One or Three Gods, In our Human Likeness. High Tech Humans today do Know how to Colonize a Planet, and make a Human fetus in the lab. This is a 'Supernatural' High Tech Human Act of Colonization.

GOD made the Elements, and Planets and Humans. This is not a Supernatural High Tech 'Human' Act. GOD is not a Human.

John 10:30. "I and my Father are one".

A new Trinity Religion began. Jesus became the Human Son of God the Father, the the Mother became the Holy Spirit, Equal to the Father and the Son. Three 'persons' in One God Head.

The Greek word Christ, and Jewish Messiah, both mean Anointed, not God. A Human Leader Messiah, was to come in the Last Days of Life on Earth, to be an Earthly Leader.

John 14:19,20. "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

Since Jesus became the Messiah, and left Earth Alive, he will return as Christ/Messiah in the Last Days, and we shall Know God is Human.

The Love of God on Earth, is building Nuclear Bomb Temples. Humans have made Pollution on land, sea, and in the air. Humans are Killing Each Other, on the Planet the Human 'God' made Life on, 'in the beginning'.

What kind of Love of the Human Lord God and Jesus is this?

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

My Photo

About Me

  • Who is Bill?
    I'm the former Faith columnist for The Kansas City Star. For a more detailed bio, look under the "Check this out" headline below. My Twitter handle is @BillTammeus. Friend me on Facebook and you'll see this blog every day in your feed.

Become a Fan

MoJo Blog Ring

  • MOJO Bloggers
    Bloggers with connections to the University of Missouri School of Journalism.


Blog powered by Typepad

Google analytics


  • .