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November 20, 2007


Just Thinking

I wish that the politicians would talk more about religion, but in a real and meaningful way. Religion does not gloss over sin, but it deals with sin. Christianity is about being reconciled to God through His grace, His forgiveness and His love through the enormous sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ. That does not come without confronting and repenting of sin. God does not forgive us if we do not want to be forgiven. Our politicians refuse to recognize and repent of the sins that they are committing and have committed, sometimes in the name of the very religion that condemns their sin.

We started a war against Iraq based on bearing false witness against this nation, and there is no repentance. Only the usual excuse: the other guy is worse. But wrong is wrong, and bearing false witness to start a war is a serious crime in God's eyes.

Our politicians will not repent of their greed. The Book of James says that real religion is this: taking care of widows and orphans. Taking care of those who cannot take care of themsleves is a worthy value of religion. Instead we take care of those who are powerful and wealthy. Rather than see the economy decline for the wealthy, we spend the money of future generations with huge deficits, resulting in enormous burden for those to come through debt, a weak dollar, and wars that should have never been fought. Then our politicians vote down health care for the very generations that they are robbing: our children. And they close Veterans Hospitals during time of war. Where is the repentance.

Where is the outcry against predatory Pay-Day loans, the financial exploitation of those who are most needy and desparate? The Bible tells us that those who oppress the poor, oppress their maker. Where is the reform and repentance?

What about health care for the poor who work but cannot make ends meet? Look at the shameful, recent history of our government on minimum wage. Where is the true religion of taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves? Where is the reform and the repentance?

Illegal immigration is promoted in order to exploit our neighbor, and the ordinary citizen as well. Exploitation has never worked and it leaves a legacy of permanent strife and conflict for future generations. Those who exploit get rich, by not paying proper wages or benefits. Those who are here illegally are not encouraged to behave legally. There is a legacy of crime and dangerous gangs. Those who are here illegally with no benefits often seek health care through emergency rooms. There is a legacy of ballooning health care costs and closed emergency rooms. There is no concern, remorse, or repentance for those who balance their checkbooks on the backs of the poor, and at the expense of a nation. There is no repentance for destroying our nation.

There is no repentance for the predatory loan practices of our financial institutions. By promoting low down payments, variable interest rates and a variety of other predatory practices, the price of a house is inflated. People are put into houses that they cannot afford, and the government backs these loans, too. The end result is what we see: out of control house prices in many markets, large default rates, and the taxpayer left holding the bag. More burden for the average citicizen by a failed system that simply produced quick wealth for those doing the exploiting. Where is the reform and where is the repentance on the part of politicians who support such systems?

The list goes on and on. Our country is sick with serious sin. I wish our politicians would discuss the direct sin of government against people. In other words, THEY should practice their religion and repent of THEIR sins instead of trying to force THEIR religion on someone else.

Dolores Lear

The Christian Right is not making very much noise about relibion, today in the Election, because no Candidate that could win, has a clean slate. Huckabee probably does, any maybe he will advance, but Rudy seems to be the favorite, not because of Morality, but because he is more forceful on trying to stop Terrorists.

There are no Candidates stating their religious beliefs, like the last two elections. The Christian Right Republicans began a United Movement, in the 70s or before putting people in office, in the States and working up to the 2000 election. And see what we got. Thou Shalt Not Kill, did not make a dent, in deciding to go to War in Iraq, getting oil did. God was in favor for War. What a wrong statement.

Now that the War has taken all our resources, plus Billions in debt to China and Japan, I do not know, how warriors against terrorism, can continue into Iran, without breaking the bank.

The false identity that the USA is a Christian Country, by mouth worship, instead of by Living by Gods Rules of Loving GOD/LIFE, and Loving our Brothers/Sisters as ourselves, is disproved by the Killing History of the USA, ever since the Revolutionary War.

So will prophecy come true in the next election, about the powerful Country in the Last Days of Life on Earth, that will Fall?
Can either the Republican or Democratic Party, pull us out of the Hole we are in, in our finances, because of the Costs of Killing and War? We do not have the Resources to take Care of our Soldiers, that have Fallen and been wounded. If we cannot recover our debts, without a big tax raise on the poor, will it be the Fall of the Power of the End Times of Life on Earth, in Biblical Prophecy, the USA?

Does our Lifestyle remind anyone else of the problems of Kings, their Courts and peasants, and other powerful Countries, in the Past? Does the Killing History of Humans keep repeating and repeating?
Hoping for Peace and Equality, cannot be found, in Inequality in a Country, when Killing and War takes most of their budget, like it did for Kings, or other Powerful Countries of the past.
So what will the History of the USA be, if we continue in the Killing tirade, under God? Are we destined to be the power country to Fall in the End Times of Life on Earth? We do have the Nuclear Bombs all over the planet to End Life as We Know it.



Religion and medical decisions is a great topic, Bill.

I confess that end of life decisions aren't something I want to deal with and don't know good ways to do so. On an intellectual level, the righteousness of ending life when people want it and suffering is involved is clear. On an emotional level, I can't handle either the decision or the perhaps the repercussions of making such a decision.

And I always do try to rely on faith and faith supporters.

When I was pressed to make the decision regarding resuscitation and life support for my father, I just couldn't. Although it was clear that the medical people believed that he should not be revived and there was reason to consider taking him off life support. In the end, my father died during the very rare hour that I left his bedside one afternoon. I don't believe that was an accident. He wanted to die and was hanging on because I didn't want it.

I can't even get over having had to put the dog down. There is that little voice in the back of my heading asking if I should have tried to get him another week or two of life.


If there's not enough info regarding religion in this election, I would hate to see "what is".

I personally don't think that religious topics belong in the public forum. That means the debates and speeches in secular venues should be secular. If candidates would like to discuss religion with religious organizations, that's their option. They should clearly state their beliefs on their website, for people who are interested.

The thought of a third of Republican candidates not believing in Evolution just curdles my blood. And we want to know why America is behind in the sciences. And McCain's remarks regarding the "appropriate" religion for a president are nothing short of reprehensible.

Incidentally, I heard an interesting discussion on NPR as to whether or not Romney should discuss Mormonism in depth. The consensus seemed to be that once he goes there, it would derail his campaign from the other issues.

Dave Miller

Nice post this morning, JT. Well said.

Joe Barone

I've heard it said that we always fight the last war. We don't adapt to new tactics but instead use the old.

The same may be true in politics. Religious fundamentalism may have dominated the previous elections, especially 2000, but that's over. People are disillusioned with the result. Now they want to hear about what is going to be done in regard to Iraq, terrorism, immigration, health care, global warming, water use, and a whole host of other issues. As I see it, the religious hot button issues of the last two elections are not so important to the electorate now.

Joe Barone

My wife an I have wills, living wills, durable powers of attorney, and a paid-up inexpensive cremation plan for each of us. We have talked with our son about how we hope to be treated by the medical community as we are dying. We have asked him to help that happen. Also, we have tried to do the same for very close family members who have died. We have tried to see that they were treated as they specified (and that was different in different cases). Our faith and the way it values the dignity of life and death is a strong motivating factor in these plans.

Having been in our present church just 18 months, I don't know if it addresses these issues. I believe it should.

Dolores Lear

Yesterday, I ask for people to post about what they believe Life After Death means to them.
Since Joe and Patricia posted about Death, I posted some of examples of Life After Death in Heaven, yesterday, that I have heard about.

Patricia posted about her mother, but no one posted what they expect Life to be Like in Heaven After Death. Physical or Spirit.
Any comments today?



There's an interesting discussion of the Funky Winterbean character who recently went through end-of-life issues here: http://religion.beloblog.com/archives/2007/10/religion_sneak_peek_endoflife.html



Patrica, what about "creation" threatens you so much?? Why do libs break out in hives and deem folks who believe in creation as idiots?? What happens to tolerance?

Dolores Lear


I guess you know McCain recently joined the Baptist Church, where many right wingers go, and stated by some people, as to try to appeal to them for their support.

Just Thinking

Concerning your end-of-life plan ...

Can you imagine a God who would reward a male martyr with the LIVES of 72 virgin sex slaves to do with as they please for the martyr's pleasure for eternity? And what did the 72 virgins do to deserve that eternal enslavement? Is that heaven for a Muslim woman?

There are going to be some very sorely disaapointed people when they arise to judgment if that's who they think that God is. They are going to feel burned.

Can you imagine making such nonsense the sole source of your inspiration? Can you imaginine killing thousands of people with that as your goal and your source of comfort and conviction? That's what 9/11 was all about.

Can you imagine a liberated woman in this country ever possibly supporting such drivel? It is unfathomable to think about what it must take for the Muslim women to hear those tales, descriptions and fantasies of the men marching off into oblivion on the promise of 72 pieces of faceless female martyr bait.

Greg Swartz

Most humans do not have the ability, it seems, to accept the finite nature of their being. Thus, they imagine that there are places they will go after their death - heaven, hell, the underworld, etc. There is not one shred of any tangible evidence that any such places exist. Everything that humans think about any afterlife is based upon a vivid imagination and is totally delusional. There is no walking a celestial stairway to God or any other such nonsense!

The only thing that lives on is the memory of you retained in the memory of others and whatever tangible evidence you leave - writings, pictures, momentos, grave stones, your body in the ground if you are buried and other such things. And, all of those things erode with time.

I think it is rather pitiful to witness humans imagining a god, imagining a place created by the imaginary god and then presuming to know that they will in fact go to this imaginary place. Everyone expects that they will be going to heaven. Have you ever read an obituary that assumes that the person has gone to hell! What is more, they spend a huge amount of time, effort and money preparing for this imaginary event. Just how delusional can you get!!!!!

When you die, you are dead - THE END!!!!


Or not.

Why Is This So Difficult

Dolores, it was reported by most media sources that McCain recently became a Baptist. According to him, this is untrue:

"Republican presidential candidate John McCain, who has long identified himself as an Episcopalian, said this weekend that he is a Baptist and has been for years.

"Campaigning in this conservative, predominantly Baptist state, McCain called himself a Baptist when speaking to reporters Sunday and noted that he and his family have been members of the North Phoenix Baptist Church in his home state of Arizona for more than 15 years.

'It's well known because I'm an active member of the church,' the Arizona senator said."

Doesn't sound like something done recently for political gain, and should be easy to prove one way or the other (if you don't believe him, that is).

Why Is This So Difficult

"Everyone expects that they will be going to heaven. Have you ever read an obituary that assumes that the person has gone to hell! What is more, they spend a huge amount of time, effort and money preparing for this imaginary event."

No, usually the obituaries are not written by the person who has died. Hence, the reason for the assumption they are in heaven (what their loved ones want to believe).

And I'm not sure I understand where the time, effort, and money is being spent to prepare for the 'event' (not even sure I know what you mean by the 'event').

As for the truth of being a finite being, I guess we'll all find out soon enough.


"There is not one shred of any tangible evidence that any such places exist."

Actually, there is. A preacher named Jesus talked about both Heaven and Hell, what they're like and who goes where. He made a lot of other outrageous statements as well, including one that He would be put to death and come back to life on the third day. If that hadn't happened, we could probably pretty much ignore everything else He had to say. But He was put to death by Roman soldiers, experts at killing, and was witnessed alive (not laying in a sick bed but taking miles-long walks) just a few days later by far more witnesses than it would take to send somebody to the electric chair. Many of those witnesses would be asked to retract their story or suffer a painful death, and not a one backed down.

Just Thinking

And the life of Jesus was foretold by the Prophets. The Book of Daniel is a striking example that put forth a timeline for Christ, hundreds of years beforehand. And we have manuscripts of the Book of Daniel that were provably in existence long before Christ was born.

presbyto lady

Ah, it does my heart good to see what lovely work Jesus accomplished for our salvation and for believers to deliver to the Good News.

Joe Barone

JT, Thanks for your thoughtful and heartfelt opening entry on this blog. It shows your deep faith and is a tremendous testimony to folks like me.

Just Thinking

Thanks, Joe, for also speaking up for those who need to be cared for and protected.

Dolores Lear

Once we can accept the High tech Science Knowledge that God and Anagels, or the Lord, or the Father of Life on Earth, are our High Tech Ancestors, that looked like Humans, and we are in their Image, even if we are made by Body Birth, we are still the same kind of Humans. The Only Human Birth we are made from, High Tech Womb, or female womb.
They were on Earth at the Time of Jesus, and Jesus was made in the female womb, supernaturally, or, a fetus was implated into Mary. We Know how to do that today.

At the Crucifixion of Jesus, whether in a coma or dead, the Angel (our HTA) did 'regenerate' him, and after he appeared to many, he did go up in the air Alive, with the Father, a Human. Jesus, nor the Father are Spirits.
They did go in a spaceship to their Home Planet, and will return in Physical form at Judgement Day. This will also be a Physical Happening, not a Spirit. The Colonization was a Physical happening also, Supernatural is not Spirit, but High Tech.

I think most accept the Judgement Day will be in Physical Form, not Spirit. So people will go Physically, Alive, with them to a new planet like Earth was 'in the beginning'. All the Information in the Bible that was Translated as Spirit when the High Tech Science Knowledge was lost and called Supernatural, is High Tech.

So maybe it was necessary for people start Life After Death teachings, to have something, to give them comfort for family and friends that died, but that is all made up, because of the loss of High Tech.

Jesus will be the Physical Leader on the new planet like Adam was on our Earth. And Jesus and all that get to go with, will then have their Clone Helpmeet, like Eve was to Adam.

I hope if I do not get to go, that they do refrain for any reason, to decide to reproduce by Body Birth, another Cain, to start the destruction of another Planet.


Dolores Lear


If it is True about McCain, is it admitted in the news. I know McCain said something, but if it was confirmed, I did not hear or see it.

Dolores Lear

I went and looked on Google, and McCain's wife and children are Baptist, and he has attented with them, but he is still identified on this stats, as Episcopalian.


"Oh, so now you are claiming that the Holocaust was rational. You're a friggin' genius, Corbin.
Posted by: Just Thinking | August 13, 2007 at 12:29 PM"

Are you aware of what 'friggin' means, JT?

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