Because of recent heavy publishing volume, I'm going to give you one more blog book column before the winter holidays in case you'd like time to get one or more of these for friends or family.
As I say, faith-based books seem to come out by the hundreds each week, so the ones I'll mention today do not constitute an exhaustive list of what's new out there. They're simply the ones I've had a chance to hold in my hand, read and think about.
But just so you know my personal (and possibly self-centered) hope: If you're looking for a gift book for someone, buy my new book, They Were Just People: Stories of Rescue in Poland During the Holocaust. All the royalties will go to Holocaust-related charities.
Now, for others:
* Subversive Sequels in the Bible: How Biblical Stories Mine and Undermine Each Other, by Judy Klitsner. This is insightful, top-cabin Jewish biblical scholarship. The author, a biblical scholar and exegete, unpacks surprising and revelatory meaning when she compares various biblical stories. And she goes deep enough in an almost rabbinic sense to help readers understand her methods and conclusions. Klitsner's work is evidence that words thousands of years old continue to hold new and deep meaning for people who arrive long after they were written.
* The Historical Jesus: Five Views, edited by James K. Beilby and Paul Rhodes Eddy. The modern quest for the historical Jesus has been going on for more than a century -- and what often happens is that the historians who go on this search often wind up finding the historian's Jesus. The helpful thing about this book is that after each of the five contributors writes a piece about his (why all males?) version of the quest, the other four offer a response. It's quite dynamic. But, in the end, it's clear that we've reached no consensus about the historical Jesus. But the fact that 2,000 years after Jesus lived on Earth people still are devoting their lives to reconstructing his life is a measure of that life's importance.
* Ancient Laws & Contemporary Controversies: The Need for Inclusive Biblical Interpretation, by Cheryl B. Anderson. This is serious exegetical guidance for serious biblical students, but it is not so dense that educated lay people can't benefit from it. Anderson, a seminary teacher, offers up ways for people who take scripture as authoritative to interpret it in non-literalistic ways that make it speak more clearly to our time and place. One need not agree with all her conclusions to recognize that she is moving people toward a hermeneutic that makes the Bible more meaningful for contemporary situations and issues. This is a good candidate for study groups.
* Reason, Religion, Democracy, by Dennis C. Mueller. The author, a professor emeritus of economics at the University of Vienna, offers here a detailed analysis of the ways in which religion -- especially in its radical expressions -- and liberal democracies tend to collide. If you you disagree with Mueller's conclusions you will recognize that he is raising important questions about whether and how it might be possible for religion and democracy to exist in harmony and what factors combine to thwart that. This will unsettle some of us who are people of faith and we may feel defensive. But the book is worth a read as a way of helping all of us understand what's finally at stake in all nations.
* The Mirage of Peace: Understanding the Never-Ending Conflict in the Middle East, by David Aikman. No, of course it is not possible to understand everything about the Middle East, which journalist and Christian Aikman calls "a very complicated place," in fewer than 300 pages. And yet people who read this fascinating, historical, insightful account will be closer to an understanding than before they started. It's detailed and careful, and includes some original documents, including the Hamas charter and U.N. resolution 242. People arguing various sides of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict no doubt will continue to argue even after reading this, but at least their understandings should be clearer.
* It's Really All About God: Reflections of a Muslim Atheist Jewish Christian, by Samir Selmanovic. In a time of growing religious diversity in America, we need tools that will help us live together in harmony. The author, a pastor and convert to Christianity, does interfaith work in New York and offers here some extraordinarily helpful ways to think about how to move toward that harmony. Although committed to his own faith, he is open -- and suggests we all be open -- to learning from other traditions on the theory that every religion has insights others can benefit from. This is the kind of book study groups from various faith traditions (and no faith tradition) will find useful as a guide. Despite the books' subtitle, the author is not proposing that we all merge into one syncretistic, mushy faith. Rather, he's suggesting that we be modest theologians.
* Onward Christian Athletes: Turning Ballparks into Pulpits and Players into Preachers, by Tom Krattenmaker. When you think about religion and athletics, what comes to mind? Inevitably, some guy behind home plate in a multi-colored wig holding a "John 3:16" sign. Well, that's not the half of it. And the author, a journalist, takes readers here on a trip through the various ways that people who would call themselves evangelical Christians use athletics to promote their brand of the faith. Krattenmaker is not against religion in athletics, but he wants us to know the forces behind it and to understand that what he calls the "crusader form" of Christianity, which he calls "rigid, militaristic, nationalistic" is what "prevails in the professional sports leagues. Too often, it's a form of faith that tends to separate us all into opposing sides and make unwelcome judgments about those on the 'wrong' side of the line." This is a remarkably interesting read.
* A Case for the Divinity of Jesus: Examining the Earliest Evidence, by Dean L. Overman. The author, a lawyer and Christian scholar, carefully reviews here the information behind the startling affirmation that Jesus of Nazareth was God in human form. He digs into not just the Bible but also creeds, hymns and other written evidence to see what early followers of Jesus believed about him and whether those beliefs make any sense. His contention is that competing voices claiming something less for Jesus were second century "distortions of the core message, not independent traditions dating back to Jesus himself." Overman is far from the first writer to examine this matter, but because the question goes to the heart of the faith, it's worth re-examining the evidence from time to time.
* The Dice Game of Shiva: How Consciousness Creates the Universe, by Richard Smoley. As someone acknowledged to be an authority on mystical philosophy, Smoley is unafraid to attack the huge questions that have baffled humanity from the start: Is there a God? If so, why is there evil in the world? Which came first, the world or consciousness? This book is full of attempts to struggle with such weighty matters, and thus is worth a read. But I caution that Smoley seems to quote such theological giants as Dietrich Bonhoeffer to make his own point, not Bonhoeffer's. For instance, he quotes Bonhoeffer, a German Lutheran pastor martyred by the Nazis, as asking what humans are to do if they finally can answer all their questions "without God." Then he accuses Bonhoeffer of failing to answer that, thus ignoring Bonhoeffer's own answer, found in his Letters and Papers from Prison: "We are to find God in what we know, not in what we do not know; God wants us to realize his presence, not in unsolved problems but in those that are solved." It's a profound and insightful suggestion from Bonhoeffer and it leads to a rather different -- and, for me, much more satisfying -- place than the destination to which Smoley would take us.
* The Pope & the Snowman: A Christmas Tale, by Roger Coleman, illustrated by Richard Becker. The author, a Kansas City pastor, gave me the privilege some time ago of reading the manuscript for this imaginative and lovely little book. Yes, it's about a pope having a conversation with a snowman -- one that changes the pontiff profoundly and gives him a new vision of what he should be about. I'm guessing it will become a seasonal family favorite for many people.
* Traveling with Pomegranates: A Mother-Daughter Story, by Sue Monk Kidd and Ann Kidd Taylor. Fans of Sue Monk Kidd -- and they are justifiably legion -- will be delighted that she has teamed up with her daughter to write this engaging interior and exterior travelogue, set in Greece and France. The back and forth between mother and daughter is wonderfully revelatory, not only of them but also of us. People who love Sue Monk Kidd's earlier works might suggest that newcomers first retreat and read The Secret Life of Bees or The Dance of the Dissident Daughter, but I think this new book would be a lovely place to start.
* Spiritual Adventures in the Snow: Skiing and Snowboarding as Renewal for Your Soul, by Dr. Marcia McFee and the Rev. Karen Foster. In some ways, this is a theological book that argues against the false split so popular with the ancient Greeks -- the mind-body separation. Christian doctrine rejects that split, especially in its proclamation of the doctrine of the resurrection of the body, and the authors of this book, in that spirit, celebrate the body-spirit connection by proposing that people who devote themselves to skiing or snowboarding or other in-the-snow activities can experience spiritually rewarding times because, as they write, "there is something sacred about these outdoor cathedrals of winter." Co-author McFee, by the way, is a graduate of St. Paul School of Theology in Kansas City.
* Faith, Reason and the War Against Jihadism, by George Weigel. Sometimes the use of labels and categories simply adds to the confusion and misunderstanding. Surely that is the case with "Jihadism," which most Muslims will understand in a more personal and non-violent way than most non-Muslims will, though for sure violent extremist Muslims have used the term in the way Weigel uses it. Eventually one has to label what I would call radical and violent extremism done in the name of Islam, and Jihadism is the word Weigel chooses in this newly released paperback version (with a new afterward) of an earlier book. It's important that we understand what drove the 9/11 hijackers who killed nearly 3,000 people, including my own nephew, so we can protect ourselves against further outrages. The difficul task is to find ways to avoid describing all Muslims or Islam itself as somehow culpable for the horrors perpetrated by people who have chosen to use Islam for ideological purposes. Like historian Bernard Lewis, George Weigel hugs the line between helpful insight and prejudice against Islam. You'll have to judge for yourself whether he crosses that line at times. My own view is that there are more helpful ways to understand this radical element than by using terminology so open to misinterpretation.
* Reading Jesus: A Writer's Encounter with the Gospels, by Mary Gordon. What a lovely read. The author, a novelist who grew up Catholic but had never read all four gospels together, finally does. And she walks us through her experience, her insights, her questions. What I most admire about this book is that the author understands how to write in moving, insightful ways, understands the power (and even the ultimate inadequacy) of words. Through these well-crafted words, she brings us into the presence of the gospel words -- and, at times, even into the presence of Jesus.
* The Boundary-Breaking God: An Unfolding Story of Hope and Promise, by Danielle Shroyer. From the Emergent Church Movement, the author, a pastor, seeks to describe God's movements among humanity as also emerging -- but, beyond emerging, as expanding into frontiers many of us can hardly imagine. This dynamic movement of God should encourage Christians to be open to new possibilities and new models not only of how to do church but how to do life. The Emergent Church Movement is producing some of the freshest theological thinking around today, and this book clearly fits that description.
* Follow Me to Freedom: Leading and Following as an Ordinary Radical, by Shane Claiborne and John M. Perkins. From deep in the trenches of discipleship, these Christian authors share with readers a book-length conversation between them about what drives them to seek to follow Jesus. They are decades apart in age but close in their belief that one must live out religious commitment among people in need, and together they invite readers to join them on the journey.
* Way of the Peaceful Warrior: A Book That Changes Lives (Classic Edition), by Dan Millman. In 1980, Millman published this book (sort of an autobiographic novel), which became wildly popular. This is a special 30th anniversary edition with a new afterward. In the story, Dan meets a wise man he calls Socrates and a woman named Joy, from whom he learns a great deal about life. It's not exactly Jonathan Livingston Seagull, but it may call such mystical writing to your mind.
* Bridge Between Worlds: Extraordinary Experiences That Changed Lives, by Dan Millman and Doug Childers. This is a collection of uplifting stories about people who encountered some profound change in their lives for the better. They vary widely, from a drug dealer who goes straight to a Chinese woman who gets infused in some kind of cosmic energy and finally learns to use it for healing. There's something so bare-bones about these stories, however, that some of them strain credibility. Which is to say they could have used some more chapter and verse -- or at least footnotes with details.
* The Wolf at Twilight: An Indian Elder's Journey through a Land of Ghosts and Shadows, by Kent Nerburn. This is a sequel of sorts to a 2002 book, Neither Dog nor Wolf, and it takes readers into the heart of Indian, or Native American, spirituality. Kent Nerburn has managed in his books to give non-Indian readers an accurate sense of what this spirituality is all about. This latest book is a fictionalized account of a true story, and it's told the way an excellent storyteller would tell it.
* How Jesus Became Christian, by Barrie Wilson. For people who have been following the original "New Perspective on Paul" work begun several decades ago and its more recent forms under such scholars as Mark D. Nanos, this work will seem like a repudiation of all of that. Or nearly so. Wilson's contention is that Paul hijacked the Jesus movement and turned it into something it was never meant to be. It's exactly this charge (and others) that Nanos and such Paul scholars as John Gager and Lloyd Gaston have been working to expose as a misreading. Wilson even charges Paul with antisemitism, and that, again, is precisely the center of the misreading of Paul that has been around for so long. Well, I guess to understand the important work of the other Pauline scholars, one should know what they're up against. Many of Wilson's conclusions are what they're up against.
* The Church of Facebook: How the Hyperconnected Are Redefining Community, by Jesse Rice. If, like me, you are on Facebook, you sense that something almost cosmic is happening without quite understanding why and how. The author, whose musical roots are in the Presbyterian Church, here offers us new ways to think about what's going on -- but, more than that, he offers readers suggestions for ways to redeem Facebook and other social networking tools from the tedium of banality so they can become tools of ministry (in a very broad sense), help and even love. This past summer I taught a weeklong seminar at Ghost Ranch in which I tried to introduce people of faith to Facebook and other social networks in the hopes that they would use these networks as a means by which their own prophetic voices could be heard in the world. I wish this book had been out in time for me to use it. It would have added considerable richness to our conversation.
* Holy Ground: Walking with Jesus as a Former Catholic, by Chris Castaldo. This intriguing book is designed to help former Catholics who now identify themselves as evangelical Protestants understand some of their conflicted feelings. It's both a personal story of the author's change and an advice book for people walking a similar path. Sometimes I think Castaldo overgeneralizes in his descriptions of what both Catholics and Protestants think and believe, but it's nonetheless an authentic account of an authentic faith journey.
* Our Lady of Guadalupe: Mother of the Civilization of Love, by Carl Anderson and Msgr. Eduardo Chavez. When a 16th century Christian convert reported encountering the Virgin Mary outside of what today is Mexico City, the long history of Our Lady of Guadelupe's connection with Hispanic culture began. It's quite an engaging story that has profound implications for how many Catholics today feel connected to the mother of Jesus and ultimately to God. No doubt this book is designed to appeal mostly to Catholics, but non-Catholics also may learn a lot about that tradition.
* Shift: What it Takes to Finally Reach Families Today, by Brian Haynes. This pastor author makes a plea here for families to take more responsibility for the religious education of their children. It's a good and worthy goal. I just wish he would have expressed it without denigrating non-Christians needlessly. Early in the book he tells of taking his daughter to her first day of kindergarten. In that classroom, he writes, with no explanation at all, "Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, atheism, and secular humanism were present and accounted for and valued more highly than Christianity. My prayer life deepened dramatically that day as a dad trying to raise a Christ-follower in a world full of lies." As I say, he offers no hint why he thinks other religions represented in that classroom were valued more highly than Christianity, and then, at least by implication, he calls all other faiths lies. If that's your approach to religious education (it's not mine), this is the book for you.
* From the Great Omission to Vibrant Faith: The Role of the Home in Renewing the Church, by David W. Anderson. If I had to pick between this book and the one listed just above it as a way to think about how families in their homes should be engaged in faith formation, I'd pick this one. It's well organized and grows out of some useful experience. Beyond that, it seems open to new ideas. It's clearly aimed just at Christians, but the message of how families help to shape faith is one that people of all religions would do well to understand more deeply.
* An Amish Christmas: December in Lancaster County, by Beth Wiseman, Kathleen Fuller and Barbara Cameron. This is a collection of three charming novellas about life among Old Order Amish people, written by journalists who have taken the time to get to know that life. One thing they reveal is that human nature, hopes, wants, desires and goals are pretty much the same no matter what religious tradition people follow.
*A Classic Christmas: Spiritual Reflections, Timeless Literature, and Treasured Verse and Scripture, no editor listed by publisher HarperOne. This is a lovely little book that contains lots of contributions about Christmas from many sources -- from the Bible to Karl Barth, from Mark Twain to Laura Ingalls Wilder. It's just the sort of warm-hearted collection to keep handy during the holidays for those times when you want to remember what the point of the season really is.
* The Green Bible Devotional: A Book of Daily Readings, by Carla Barnhill. Sometimes a sequel comes along that makes almost more sense than the original. Thus, this devotional book takes the so-called Green Bible, published last year, and draws out the environmental and spiritual messages that were implicit but not always obvious in the Green Bible.
* Let the Oppressed Go Free: Breaking the Bonds of Addiction, by Cardinal Justin Rigali. Another in the "Shepherd's Voice" series, this book looks at how Catholics understand addiction and how they shape a response to it within the context of the gospel. Although its primary audience is Catholic, its principles may be useful for faith communities beyond the Catholic Church and even beyond Christianity.
* 101 Exercises for the Soul, by Bernie S. Siegel. This well-known spiritual coach here offers various ways to improve your life. From developing an attitude of gratitude to eating a little chocolate now and then. Nothing much new here but it's all in one place in a quick read.
* Live Your Bliss: Practices that Produce Happiness and Prosperity, by Terry Cole-Whittaker. If you're into New Age-y thinking and advice that promises that "we really can be happy all the time" and that "the Golden Age is upon us," then this is your book. The author has been selling these ideas for a long time, though not to me. I find them too self-referential and almost unaware that happiness is a by-product of a life lived in service to others, not a pearl of great price to be bought with faddish devotion to the next new idea.
* Soul Currency: Investing Your Inner Wealth for Fulfillment & Abundance, by Ernest D. Chu. You have spiritual assets. The goal of this book is for you to know that, take an inventory of them and nurture them so you invest them wisely. In some ways, this is the Prosperity Gospel for non-Christians, particuarly New Age types. There's some wisdom here, but be careful not to think of your soul currency just in terms of financial advantage.
* * *
DEGENERATION AFTER DEGENERATION
The BBC has decided to drop the broadcast of part of a ballet that features a deformed pope raping nuns. You know, some days I'm glad my grandparents and parents aren't still around to read the news.
* * *
P.S.: Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/BillTammeus.
Just ripped from headlines and in line with Bill's story about pope raping nuns - well, if not the Pope, then just Catholic priests abusing sexually nuns...
Indian nun claims sex is rife within Catholic Church
An Indian nun has stunned the Catholic Church with a confessional autobiography claiming widespread sexual abuse and bullying within its cloisters.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/4733272/Indian-nun-claims-sex-is-rife-within-Catholic-Church.html
_________________________
Cole,
What I like about stoning people according to Yahweh's / Jesus' father's laws is that this is a "self sustaining" and "environmentally friendly" process. Is it painful? Yes. But who cares when you follow the will of god? "Though shall not kill/murder?" Who cares when god tells you it's OK. Stoning is just as good as gutting open pregnant women by Joshua when he was alledgely conquering Israel. Killing old, young, teenagers, pregnant women and animals during sieges? - sure, why not. We are fighting for our promised land. Hmmmmmmmm, couldn't god for the hell of it just make up an island in the Mediterrenian for the Jews the size of Palestine? He could have practiced another "opening of the sea" for them - he of course knew how to do it for the second time. Then Israel would have been a sea faring power on par with Greece and Troy and Egypt?
Stones don't require any natural resources to consume, god has already created them for the intended usage, they can be recycled again and again and again. You don't even have to wash blood off them, just leave them laying around, dogs and other wild animals in ancient Judea would go around day and night time and lick them off, sun, rain, wind and sand will blast off the blood. Apparently, "The Venus Project" was not on the minds of the Jews at that time - the question of "common good" was "never" asked by religions - in the self centered frenzy of psychological dependency and used as a crutch, one can only wonder how long will it take "an irrational" human evolve into rational.
Posted by: IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org | November 28, 2009 at 12:38 AM
"War Against The Weak" By Edwin Black. "Eugenics And America's Campaign To Create A Master Race"
"Prominent voices in the genetic technology field believe that mankind is destined for a genetic divide that will yield a superior race or species to exercise dominion over an inferior subset of humanity. They speak of 'self-directed evolution" in which genetic technology is harnessed to immeasurably correct humanity - and then immeasurably enhance it. Correction is already underway. So much is possible: genetic therapies, embryo screening in cases of inherited disease and even modification of the genes responsible for adverse behaviors, such as aggression and gambling addiction. Even more exotic technologies will permit healthier babies and stronger, more capable individuals in ways society never dreamed of before the Human Genome Project was completed. These improvements are coming this decade. Some are available now."
How about the High Tech Humans 'in the beginning' in Genesis?
Genesis1:26a. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: Adam was in the High Tech Purebred Human likeness of God/Us.
Genesis 2:21,23. "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man"
God/Us was Male and Female Clone Humans. Adam was put to sleep for the operation.
Above: "Prominent voices in the genetic technology field believe that mankind is destined for a genetic divide that will yield a superior race or species to exercise dominion over an inferior subset of humanity."
The Superior High Tech Reproduced Human Race did Come to Earth 'in the beginning'. But they do not have an 'inferior subset' of humanity any more, on their Home Planet.
Continued.
Posted by: Dolores Lear | November 28, 2009 at 07:09 AM
Continued.
After the High Tech Adam and Eve Clone Humans, began Reproducing Defective Human Children, they reproduced an inferior subset of humanity on Earth.
Humans lost their 'High Tech Science Knowledge of Eternal Physical Lifestyle after Birth, and had to go through the Fallen Defective Genetic and Physical Human Lifestyle of Heterosexual Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth until the End Times of Life on Earth.
With a High Tech Translation, Humans with the Return of High Tech Science Birth and Spaceships, Humans can Know, this was how Earth was Colonized in the Beginning.
A High Tech Science Translation of the 6 Days of Creation/Colonization is Humanly Possible. And today Humans Know Cloning of Humans is also possible.
It is Exciting how these High Tech Science Writings were handed down for 6000 years, for our Knowledge when Humans again began the High Tech Cycle of Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth. This Cycle also happened during the High Tech Noah/Atlantis Society.
God/Us Humans do Know about the Fallen Human Generation Cycles of High Tech Science and can Prophesy these Events, once a New High Tech Clone Colony 'falls' to Heterosexual Body Birth Reproduction.
We have the Record of the Planetary Flood Water Destruction, and the Destruction of the Ice Canopy, on Earth in Genesis, by the High Tech Noah/Atlantis Society.
Now, Another Unbalanced High Tech Society has set up the Prophesied Planetary Fire Destruction, and the Killing of our Eco System and Ozone Canopy, also recorded in 'Holy Scriptures' for the End Times of Life on Earth.
Posted by: Dolores Lear | November 28, 2009 at 07:09 AM
I noticed that yesterday someone posted that the only thing which is constant is change! Wow, is that Orwellian or what? Constant is the exact opposite of change, and trying to redefine change as the only constant is no different than calling evil good and calling good evil.
Truth is constant. I wonder which of the Ten Commandments has changed? Is it now okay to murder? Is it now okay to steal? Or is it now okay to commit adultery? Truth doesn't change. Truth is the only constant. That which is constant is Truth. Our comprehension of Truth may change, but Truth itself does not change. The Ten Commandments are as valid as they ever were. They've been valid since the day they were carved in stone, and even before they were written down.
There is an alarming Orwellian trend to define good as evil and evil as good. The Bible warns about that kind of thing, too.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.
Malachi 2:17
You have wearied the LORD with your words. "How have we wearied him?" you ask. By saying, "All who do evil are good in the eyes of the LORD, and he is pleased with them" or "Where is the God of justice?"
Claiming that the only thing constant is change is a sneaky, underhanded, dishonest method of trying to brainwash people into accepting that there is no such thing as Truth. That's the inevitable and desired consequence of such non-sense. It's a blatantly false, sneaky and treacherous way to turn "change" into "constant" and "constant" into "change". It's all part of calling good evil and calling evil good. Some things don't change, including that ancient lie/deception.
Posted by: Just Thinking | November 28, 2009 at 09:58 AM
Thanks, Bill, for your insightful overview of all these new books!
From Wednesday -- Just Thinking, the other day I forgot to respond to something you'd said about "entitlement ... promoting laziness and inefficiency."
I think you and I have different perspectives on human nature, based on the fact that I've spent much of my adult life caring for and observing young children. My observations lead me to believe that we come into this world with an urge to create that isn't at all tied to any kind of a reward system. The creation itself is the reward.
And, to me, creation includes the whole realm of exploration and learning, and also cooperating with others to create solutions to problems. Young children are eager to contribute to the wellbeing of the group, when they're shown ways they can do this that are, of course, developmentally-appropriate.
It seems to me that we start life eager to create, and eager to engage in the various processes that we see as instrumental to improving the quality of our lives (depending on aptitude, different individuals focus in on different creative processes). When you see children "playing," if you really watch you will often see that they're role-playing and mimicking the work they see being done by the adults around them.
So we start life eager to create and eager to engage -- what happens? It's obviously not the "human nature" we were born with that is the cause of detachment and disengagement from the creative processes of life, "except" for when we "have" to create to pay the bills. (Continued)
Posted by: Susan | November 28, 2009 at 10:39 AM
A pretty impressive list of books, Bill. I think you publish this list at least 3-4 times a year, this one has 30+ books you've read and thought about. Wow! I wish I had enough time - can't wait to retire! Actually cannot wait till I die and then have all the time in the world to grasp the concept of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the Spaghetti Heaven when all the knowledge will be available to me.
I noticed a title "How Jesus became a Christian" - to which I have to say "What the Hell?????????????"
The Green Bible Devotional: A Book of Daily Readings - this one should be on the reading list of every "Apocalyptical" Xian and just every Xian - what if god never comes to install his kingdom on earth? Then we are all screwed, so why not rely on ourselves to sustain the enviornemnt and "The Venus Project?"
Subversive Sequels in the Bible: How Biblical Stories Mine and Undermine Each Other - interesting title, yet the description of the book is opposite to the Title. Sounds like a way to make some money for the rabbi.
* The Historical Jesus: Five Views - Why the hell don't "all" newspapers, TV and radio stations as well as every web site in the world is covering this breaking news that "Jesus existed, lived and died for our sins?"
* Ancient Laws & Contemporary Controversies: The Need for Inclusive Biblical Interpretation - ??????? Interpretation? What, it's written in the language that people don't understand? Have they actually "ever?" understood it that it requires "interpretation?" Are poeple today or way back were so stupid that god wanted to make his word even stupider for them so they don't get it? Like they did not understand then as Jesus spoke in "codes" and "parables?" - come on, at what point reality should set in?
* Reason, Religion, Democracy - yes, yes, and yes!
___________________
A Lesson for All Christians 13 Hitchens Breaks the Bible Down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkZx8vW5_6s&feature=related
Christopher Hitchens Shames Douglas Wilson on CNN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn0sDwqsrrI
Posted by: IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org | November 28, 2009 at 10:55 AM
(Continued) I think the primary problem is that our society's forgotten the truth that learning starts with the learner. We learn when we have ample opportunities to connect with information that helps us to answer the questions we're asking, and helps us to solve the life-problems we are trying to solve. That's why it's so important to pay attention to children's questions, and get on board with them and respond to them, rather than expecting them to get on board with us all the time.
Just Thinking, I think I am the "someone" you just referred to in your 9:58 AM post today the "someone" who yesterday talked about the only constant being change. You think I am calling good evil and evil good? Wow! Is that predictable of you or what?! LOL
I think the basic, unchanging truth (as far as I know) is that life depends on inter-connectedness between diverse elements or beings. As humans, we experience this interconnectedness as love. In a sense, I see this as an answer to Iggy's question as to why God needed to be born through a human woman. Life doesn't come out of anyone being independent: it's all about INTER-dependence.
And interdependence "changes" us from the self-contained beings we perceived ourselves as before -- so, in a sense, our "constant" need for interconnectedness depends on our willingness to be adaptable and CHANGE. Huh?
So, anyhow, back to Just Thinking's allegations: our values are based on our current understandings of the truth, which of course are based on our current knowledge. I actually agree with you, Just Thinking, that it's still wrong, unloving, and damaging to connectedness to lie, steal, or commit adultery. (Continued)
Posted by: Susan | November 28, 2009 at 11:05 AM
(Continued) And I honestly can't imagine a scenario where it would be "right" to lie, steal, or committ adultery.
But about lying, I participated in a discussion thread a while back, where a woman recently had a planned unassisted childbirth. She and her husband, to eliminate the stress of having to deal with everyone else's anxieties before the birth, simply left out the detail that they were going unassisted. Which meant that everyone assumed they were using a midwife as they'd done before.
Anyhow, after the birth they excitedly let friends and family how wonderfully it had gone -- and the woman's mother got very upset with her that she'd previously left out that detail, and she actually cut off contact with her daughter. And the woman (the daughter) anonymously-posted so she could use others as a sounding-board as she worked through her feelings about her mom.
It was interesting. Some of us felt that her mode of birth wasn't anyone's business, other than hers and her husband's -- so leaving out that detail wasn't lying, but was actually a wise way of avoiding having to deal with other people's anxieties during the weeks leading up to the birth, when most couples are dealing with their own anxieties and trying to surround themselves with calm, relaxing thoughts.
Others felt it was wrong and dishonest, and that she should have divulged the details to her mom even knowing that her mom would flip out. (Continued)
Posted by: Susan | November 28, 2009 at 11:21 AM
That's right, Susan, entitlement promotes laziness and inefficiency. Nobody is entitled to live on this planet without striving to make their own way to secure for themselves what they need. If you want to ask others for help, then that's okay. Others should help if you ask, but taking an attitude of entitlement is wrong.
Those who feel entitled to what others have, just because they want it, are covetous and sadly mistaken.
Those who justify stealing from those who have more are thieves, and are wrong.
Those who think that they are entitled to everything they can grab from others, even by legal means, are also wrong. Such greed, no matter how it is justified, becomes sin.
I've seen how people who have an attitude of entitlement turn out, and it's not a pretty thing. They have to justify their wrong attitudes with ridiculous things in order to perpetuate their lie of entitlement. They'll rationalize their poor behavior of entitlement by finger-pointing and blaming. Somebody is "keeping them down."
Those who are grateful for assistance which they have not earned end up in a very different place than those who cop an attitude of entitlement. Those who are grateful for assistance continue to strive in order to become self-sufficient. Those who are 'entitled' end up with a guilty conscience that they must assuage through anger and finger-pointing directed at the very people who are helping them. Those who are 'entitled' must justify their sin by finding fault in others, fault which can justify their wrong behavior. Those who are 'entitled' eventually hate those who are helping, instead of being grateful. And they become lazier--they don't need to strive to better themselves because they are ENTITLED.
Posted by: Just Thinking | November 28, 2009 at 11:29 AM
(Continued) Of course, in an ideal world, people would respect one-another, and couples making decisions about childbirth and childrearing wouldn't be bombarded with the opinions of interfering-relatives who feel compelled to tell them that they're screwing up royally.
In an ideal world, grandparents would just enjoy the fact that they're raised their own children, and now they're free to enjoy their grandchildren without all the responsibilities of parenthood.
Realizing this motivates me to endeavor to BE that sort of fun and respectful grandma when the time comes ... enjoying my own life and enjoying my kids and grandkids, and feeling absolutely no need to interfere ... because I've got my own interesting fish to fry.
But, for couples who can't magically transform their relatives into the ideal, respectful, non-interfering people that they WISH they could have as relatives -- sometimes it helps to keep some kinds of information to yourself. I do it all the time. I don't see "omission" as lying, when the information people are trying to get out of me, isn't any of their business anyway.
Anyhow, I guess this is a bit rambling -- I'm just trying to give an example of how the truth about lying can sometimes be "relative" depending on your perspective, and depending on the kinds of "relatives" you are blessed with. :)
Posted by: Susan | November 28, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Bill,
On the subject of Jewish/Christian relationships, I recall you said at your Community of Reason talk last year that Chirstians may have or just plain did forfeited their right to convert Jews to Christianity.
I never thought about it other than just a statement of the problems that Jews and Xians have had, but then it dawned on me that you may think that Xians have rights to convert people of other religions or non religions.
Is this correct? Or you think only "some" Xians have this right? Or is it an obligation of all Xians like Muslims in the most basic terms?
This is of god of course, right? How about of "Caeser?" - "lowly Earthly laws?" - can Satan worshipers and atheists do the same thing? - go out and attempt to deconvert Xians?
The sword of free speech and freedom of/from religion holds a double edge as you know, so I am curious about your comment. Hope you can elaborate?
Biddy wrote>>>>> Did any of you see that disgusting exhibition by Indian Hindus recently, when, for some festival or other, they were ritually killing hundreds of animals, birds etc....? The World Animal Rights activists were in an uproar about it and asking why they couldn't use plants instead ?
Good question... Because, plants don't bleed and blood has traditionally in most cultures has been viewed as "life" of sorts or "sacrifice" of a "scape goat" like a "passover lamb/Jesus" or something.
I wonder what would happen if a group of environmentally conscious atheists would start slaughtering animals en mass for the sake of let's say eliminating methane that comes out of cows behinds and burping for the sake of reducing global warming. 10-15% of green house gasses come from husbundry. I wonder if we'd hear uproars from the religoius people?
Asking "irrational" people to do something instead of what their god tells them to do would be totally wack! E.g. Asking a Christian to keep his faith to himself when he tells you his god commands him to spread it would not play very well with an evangelical/fundy, and surely not with a minister, though it's fun to look them into the eyes and see that they are realizing they are saying delusional things.
Posted by: IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org | November 28, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Yesterday Cole Morgan posted the Community of Reason programs for November 22nd. It's happened already Cole - but thanks for doing it.
To-morrow is Sunday, November 28th and the program is :-
Sustainable Future with Jerry Sargent, architect and government official.
Join a ground-floor planning session of Jerry's newly formed Sustainable Futures Association. We will analyze our propensity for war along with human sustainability issues in light of our political and ecological environments.
All welcome of course.
Posted by: Red Biddy | November 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM
All the below commands are not secular law. We can break them and there is no punishment, JT Oh, and what is all this constant and change stuff? You are talking in circles, again. KC Shuffle!
Exodus
20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Coveting something is only wanting, it doesn’t mean you will do it. I see no wrong in ‘wanting’ something, especially your neighbor’s ass. Fantasy is a part of everyone’s nature, JT, even you.
Thy should not commit adultery? Well there is such a thing as honor. We had laws before the 10 commandments. These are nothing new. There are at least 3 sets of ten commandments. Which one do you go by?
Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole
Posted by: memberofKCFreeThinkers.org | November 28, 2009 at 12:11 PM
Iggy I enjoyed the first video. Funny! The second one I had seen, but good.
In America’s south, the so called bible belt, they still throw stones, rock fight, mostly kids but some adults still do. Weird, huh? I think they take ‘ROCK n’ roll’ a little too far. Oh, well that’s the bible belt, they still encourage you to hit your children with your hand, a board, a switch, a belt. There are churches in Kansas City who teach future adults, children, to do this. Like I have said before, bronze age thinking. It’s time to wake up, pull the blanky off your head and face the real world.
Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole
Posted by: memberofKCFreeThinkers.org | November 28, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Just Thinking,
How about instead of your religious BS about Truth you go and do something about rain forests in case your god doesn't show up during Rupture any time soon and your grand grand grand grand grand grand children will have to live without her?
They may look at this blog in a couple of hundred years and when Christianity is gone like all other pagan religions of the past and say, I cannot believe my ancestor "Just Thinking" was not thinking...
Or maybe you can start small - e.g. if you have a two stroke lawnmower powered by gas or a riding mower? - get yourself and buy everyone in your family a robotic mower for Xmas? - http://www.RoboMower.com. No gas, no oil, only electric - if you use it every day only $7 of electricity will be used up in 1 year to charge it?
What are you doing, JT for the "common good" you were talking about the other day? I mean "common good" - not "your personal salvation good" through flaunting your religious underware and holes in it?
"A single two-stroke engine produces pollution equivalent to that of 30 to 50 four-stroke automobiles."
http://discovermagazine.com/2008/may/21-two-strokes-and-youre-out
Are you coming to our discussion of the Venus Project next Saturday 7 p.m.?
REMINDER - TONIGHT 7 P.M. IS READING/DISCUSSION NIGHT AT BLACKDOG - any topic is invited. If you have not read anything this month, doesn't matter, you are still welcome.
Posted by: IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org | November 28, 2009 at 01:01 PM
Susan,
I realize that you were only quoting the Zeitgeist movement when you cited "The only constant is change..." But I also realize that you've bought into that errant way of thinking in declaring yourself a "moral relativist". In fact, "moral relativism" is nothing but a warmed over version of "nothing is constant". There is ABSOLUTE Truth, and that's why moral relativism is false: moral law is absolute, not cultural. "Thou shalt not murder" doesn't change with culture. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" doesn't change with culture. These are moral absolutes. You can concoct cultural systems where you don't value such things, but you're wrong if you do.
Truth exists. Truth is real. Truth does not change, Susan. Do you think that God's Truth is changing? Is God going to change His mind tomorrow about His promises to you? I don't think so, Susan. And if you think that His promises and His Truth are not constant, then you believe in a capricious God, and you're playing a very foolish game.
Don't get sucked into old con games. Don't get sucked into ideologies of Communal entitlement through 'resource-based economies.' And don't get sucked into moral relativism through mantras of 'the only constant is change.' These sugar-coated, thinly-disguised Communist ideals are fundamentally flawed.
Cole,
Covet what? That's the subject of the commandments. Don't covet WHAT BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE. The commandments don't say not to want. Don't look longingly at your neighbor's wife. Don't look longingly at their house.
Obviously you don't have much respect for your neighbor, Cole, if you think that it's okay to covet your neighbor's wife. It taints your thinking. Certainly you have shown a lack of respect in shamelessly declaring, "I see no wrong in ‘wanting’ something, especially your neighbor’s ass." You view your neighbor's wife as a piece of meat, and you disrespect her husband. If you don't think so, then try telling them that's the way you feel. I dare you.
Posted by: Just Thinking | November 28, 2009 at 03:01 PM
Actually, Cole, I think you're behind-the-times about the Bible-Belt. At least, from what I hear, it's now the thing for some Bible Belt mamas to keep a spoon handy in their purse at all times, just in case their youngsters get out-of-line when they're out. Also some prefer plumbing-line (see link below).
Also, from my first post, I didn't mean to imply that we are "only" creative when we have to do something to pay the bills -- I was just talking about the change that seems to happen to most people, wherein they stop doing things just for the joy of it, and start relying more on extrinsic rewards. My experience with children tells me we are NOT born this way, so it's NOT human nature. There's something else going on here, and I'm not claiming to have all the answers. It's just an interesting problem to me.
Just Thinking, I'm thinking that I probably don't know any people who have a sense of entitlement -- because though I know lots who have received various forms of assistance, including myself, none of them seems to have the finger-pointing attitude that I sense coming from you. So I am wondering where your sense of entitlement is coming from, J.T. I don't mean you feel entitled to public assistance, you have probably never asked for this sort of help in your life -- but you sure do act like you're entitled to point your finger at people.
Is it that, as a taxpayer, you feel entitled to critique the people drawing from programs like Food Stamps, WIC, and Medicaid (maybe you are even critical of those drawing unemployment checks -- I'm including this because Rush Limbaugh also sees this as a form of "being on welfare" -- or, as you have sometimes put it, "feeding at the public trough")?
http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/05/25/the_pearls/
Posted by: Susan | November 28, 2009 at 03:11 PM
Susan:
"Of course, in an ideal world, people would respect one-another, and couples making decisions about childbirth and childrearing wouldn't be bombarded with the opinions of interfering-relatives who feel compelled to tell them that they're screwing up royally."
On our God/Us High Tech Planet and Spaceships, there is No Marrying and Giving in Marriage. No Childbirth or Childrearing. No InLaws, No Interfering-Relatives, No Wars or Rumors of Wars. No Killing or Death.
This keeps the Population in Balance, and Only Reproduce the Equal Clones needed. Humans on Earth have a similar Equal Sharing Human Lifestyle in our International Space Station.
Matthew 22:30. KJV. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."
High Tech Angels are Asexual Male and Female Clone Humans also. Adam and Eve Clones were 'Angels' until the became Fallen Angels and started Reproducing Defective Children.
All Humans Alive today were Reproduced Defective Body Birth Children also.
Susan:
"..back to Just Thinking's allegations: our values are based on our current understandings of the truth, which of course are based on our current knowledge."
What is Truth today with our Current Sex Practice Rules, that began with Perfect Adam and Eve Clone Helpmeets? Humans can be Reproduced without the Male Sex Act to the Female.
Back in 'my good old days' in the 1930s, most Females were Virgins. There was very limited Female Fornication.
Humans get a License to have Sex and Children. Now Sex is a normal Female Function, and rarely a Virgin Female Bride. So what is a Marriage License for today? To make a Child Legitimate, from Human Bondage, that results in a Child?
Posted by: Dolores Lear | November 28, 2009 at 03:22 PM
Religious Truth.
Birth of Jesus.
Matthew 1:18-20. KJV. "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."
Mark: Nothing.
Luke has Mary's cousin, Elizabeth in her old age, get pregnant with John the Baptist. An Angel tell Mary she will also have a son, Jesus.
Luke 1:34,35. "Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Higest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
Is this the reason the Catholic Church made a new Trinity Religion and called the Holy Ghost/Spirit a 'Person'? So the Male God Third Person, the Holy Spirit/Ghost, made Jesus, Legitimate?
John's Gospel: John the Baptists (Jesus' Cousin) proclaims Jesus the Word.
John 1:14. "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Posted by: Dolores Lear | November 28, 2009 at 05:48 PM
Just Thinking wrote>>>>>>>Nobody is entitled to live on this planet without striving to make their own way to secure for themselves what they need.
JT, did Joshua and his minions allow the tribes they slaughtered in a genocidal manner by orders of god to make "their" own way to secure for themselves what they needed?
JT wrote>>Those who feel entitled to what others have, just because they want it, are covetous and sadly mistaken.Those who think that they are entitled to everything they can grab from others, even by legal means, are also wrong. Such greed, no matter how it is justified, becomes sin.
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hold the horses, again, let's talk about Joshua taking over Israel. So, did the Israelites sin when they took the lands or because god was on their side it's not a sin?
Come on buddy - I feel like I am taking candy away from a baby - you :o)
_________________
JT wrote>>>>>>>"I see no wrong in ‘wanting’ something, especially your neighbor’s ass." You view your neighbor's wife as a piece of meat, and you disrespect her husband.
JT, don't be a moral relativist :o) - Cole was talking about a "donkey" :o)
JT wrote>>>>>>> I dare you.
I dare you to be factual, JT, rational. I dare you to come to the chat at 7 pm. tonight or next week for the Venus project discussion.
I dare any of you theists :o) to actually ever show up to any of our meetups. Care to tango?
Posted by: IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org | November 28, 2009 at 05:49 PM
Susan,
What is bothering you? All I did was point out that there is a difference between (a) someone who is grateful for assistance that they receive, and who recognizes that they are not entitled to anything and (b) someone who believes that they are entitled, i.e., who believes that someone owes them.
If I give someone assistance, then we're both blessed if they're grateful. But if they cop a prideful attitude that they're entitled to the assistance I'm offering, then you can bet I'm not helping the next time. It's the same for public assistance, too. Those who are grateful and recognize that nobody owes them anything are viewed very differently than those who cop a prideful attitude and act like they're owed assistance.
I'm not sure what makes you so angry about pointing out that difference, Susan. I've been grateful for assistance that I've been given over the years, but I don't believe for a minute that anybody owed me anything. I'm just grateful. What about you, Susan? Do you feel that someone owed you the public assistance you've had? Because that's what it sounds like when you get so angry about discussing the two attitudes.
The topic clearly angers you. Those who cop an attitude of entitlement *inevitably* become *angry* as they invent reasons why others *owe* them something. They have to cook up reasons to be angry and self-righteous against those whose money funded their assistance--that's the only way to feel 'entitled.' The only way to defend the position that you're *owed* or *entitled* is to explain why others *must* pay you! That involves blame/anger.
The other alternative is to admit that nobody owes you anything, and then to respond by being grateful. Grateful is the correct response. Not entitlement.
God doesn't *owe* anyone grace either. Be thankful for grace.
Posted by: Just Thinking | November 28, 2009 at 07:50 PM
>>>>>They've been valid since the day they were carved in stone, and even before they were written down.
Great, Confucious had the Golden Rule 'way before" Jesus - did Jesus stole it from him? Or god spoke through Confucious and delivered his Truth in a format "understood" by the locals, but not the "non existing Jewish Tribe" that was in Egypt when the 10 commandments were not given to them yet?
I wonder if the Jews were murdering each other and others while in Egypt before the 10 Commandments?
I wonder why there is no commandment against Genocide? - oh, I forgot - god ordered it!
I am still waiting for your clarifications if ex-Chritains who are atheists now are qualified to talk about Xianity?
Also, where did the morals of that leopard seal come from who was "feeding" the National Geographic photographer for 4 days?
Where did the morals of the guerilla come that held a toddler who fell into the ape section of the zoo? - youtube it.
How about disctinctly differnt cultures of Orcas (yes knowlege and information as passed on within a group of individuals). Some in CA eat fish only, others further south to Mexico fish, seals and LA pod eats all of them including sharks (through tonic shock), others in South Africa beach themselves to grab seal pups and then using their tail propell themselves back, orcas in Antartica would produce waves to wash seals off ice patches into the water, or New Zealand orcas who invert themselves while picking up sting rays from the bottom and then resume straight swim while the stingray is in tonic transe through seratonan flooding its brain and eats it?
All of these cultures/knowledge tranfer takes time - so, where do the morals of these Orcas come from? - from god? So, if orcas can "adapt" to different foods based on environment, why can't different "mythologies' of god be produced in different environemnts?
Just Thinking, it's time for your illusions to reign in your brain only and not pollute the world. Live in the real world, play in the imaginary one.
Are you coming to "The Venus Project" discussion next Saturday 7 p.m. at Blackdog?
Posted by: IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org | November 29, 2009 at 12:35 AM
Just Thinking wrote>>>>>>> Don't covet WHAT BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE.
JT, so, let's go over it again, why would Joshua "covet" the land of Israel that belonged to someone else? Or it's OK when god tells you to go and "covet" your neighbor's ass/donkey or land? Are you getting the drift of moral relativism of your god, Just Thinking?
Just Thinking wrote>>>> Is it now okay to murder? -
Sure, like when god tells you to go and wipe out all cities and cut pregnant women open? Can you please, refute this - it's in your Bible, no "interpretation" is needed. It's also OK to burn animals - god loves the stinking smell of flesh - what a freak!
>>>Is it now okay to steal? - if there is nobody else around and all Xian owners of shops are Ruptured and their property is no longer belongs to them and I am the only person on Earth left. Yeah, why not.
>>>>Or is it now okay to commit adultery?
Yes, when your wife and you are separated and on brink of divorce, or she died and the disolution of marriage by court has not happened yet. Why not?
>>>>Truth doesn't change. Truth is the only constant.
Great! Let's say God today comes and tells you to kill me like he did in the past? Will you follow "god's truth?" - a Lutheran in an Overland Park church told me he would. You could have heard a pin drop in that Bible Study when he said it.
>>>>>Our comprehension of Truth may change, but Truth itself does not change. The Ten Commandments are as valid as they ever were.
You are talking in circles, JT. The first three of the 10 commandements deal with "loving and fearing" a god who watches you while you are having sex and in the bathroom. No, thanks! You don't deny that he is "all knowing" and "all present", right? Do you think he needs to get into these minor details of my life? How about a bit bigger details of lives of people? - like what "they" want to do with their lives and not what "she/god" wants them to do?
Posted by: IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org | November 29, 2009 at 12:36 AM
Why were Marriage Licenses invented? To make the Sex Act and Children Legal? I never reallized the Marriage License was for Legal Sex, beside Legal Children.
Religion in the Past, taught, that males and females should remain Celibate, until Marriage. Jesus taught to stay Celibate always, in his Movement.
When did Humans start making a Marriage License to make the Sex and Children Legal?
The Catholic Church since 300, taught Celibacy for Males and Females. Or, Males and Female Members should remain Celibate until Marriage, and use Sex for Reproducing Children only.
The Protestant Religion when it was formed, did not accept Celibate Priests, but did accept Celibacy until Marriage. Other Religions also had Celibate Priests/Monks.
Marriage licenses were invented, to make Sex Legal, and Birth Certificates to make the Female Legal also for Inheritance. Many Children were born without a Father on their Birth Certificate, and were called Illegitimate.
Marriage Licenses and Birth Certificates began, and Pleasure Sex and Children became Legitimate. Sex and Children Out of Wedlock, became Illegitimate.
Sex for Pleasure for Singles became Fornication. Pleasure Sex with other partners while married, became Adultery.
During the Sexual Revolution the past 100 years, even though the Catholic Church was against contraception, they did approve the Rhythm Method to use to avoid sex during the females fertile days.
Continued.
Posted by: Dolores Lear | November 29, 2009 at 07:41 AM
Continue.
In 1900, a Sexual Revolution and Population Explosion Resulted. 1 Billion Humans in 1900 is almost 7 Billion today. Result: Teen Girls Pregnancy became a Problem, when Females did not stay Celibate until they had a Marriage License and Marriage.
Homosexual, Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transsexual, Humans, came out of the Closet. And all types of Pornography became Public on Movies, TVs, Magazines, and Tapes for Home use.
'Nice' Single Females, became Sex Fornicators along with the Males. Orphanages are full from Pleasure Sex Satisfaction.
High Tech Humans like God/Us in Genesis, can Reproduce Equal Male and Female Clones without the Human Sex Act. Human Body Birth is the Root of All Evil on Earth and Death.
Illegal Heterosexual Body Birth like Cain and Abel, led to Marriage 'Licenses' and Birth Certificates, for Humans to make Legal Sex and Legal Children.
How many of the Past 7 Billion Humans were born by Legal Humans? All Body Birth Humans are Illegal, ' in the sight' of God/Us High Tech Clone Reproduction Humans, that started High Tech Perfect Humans 'in the beginning'.
Religion teaches, a Human has to be born again, from the 'water' Body Birth, into the High Tech Science 'spirit' Purebred Body Birth, to go to 'Heaven', a 'literal' Eternal High Tech Planet and Spaceships.
Eternal Physical Human Life is for the High Tech Perfect Humans, not for the Dead Humans that return to GODs Visible and Invisible Elements.
Posted by: Dolores Lear | November 29, 2009 at 07:41 AM