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November 27, 2009

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memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

I’m not sure why this is so interesting. Thousands of people help to ‘hand’ write the bible? Perhaps this is proof that god exists. Why would someone pay that much money? This is so strange, I have nothing else to say.

Peace For the Sake of Goodnss Cole

Dolores Lear

Bill:
"In Greenebaum's remarks, please note especially his eloquent lament that Jews often existed at the mercy of the church, but there never was much mercy. And his surprise at how brutally Christians also have treated other Christians across history."

Abraham's Children, Ishmael and Isaac's Children Killed Each Other Down through Time. Christians fought Christians since 300. Christian fought Christian to make the USA a Nation, and then fought Indians. Christians fought Christians in the Mexican War, Spanish/American War, Civil War, and WW1, 2.

So what is New about Religious Humans All through the Bible, and All through Earth's History of Humans Killing Each Other for their God and Country?

God/Us, Perfect High Tech Humans 'in our Image', Colonized Planet Earth, recorded in Genesis 1,2. They brought Perfect Males recorded as Adam on Day 6, and Reproduced by High Tech, Female Helpmeets from the Male Ribs. On Day 7, the Clone Helpmeets were put in Charge of the New High Tech Base. When the Clones began Reproducing Body Birth Children, Inequality, Division, Killing and Death began on Earth.

The Last Book in the Bible, Revelation, records An 'Arm'ageddon War, Killer Humans have set up for the past 100 years of High Tech Science, with Nuclear Bombs on land and sea. High Tech Humans have also set up the Planetary Judgment Day Fire, with their Nuclear Pollution on land and sea, that will destroy their Eco System and Ozone Canopy. Then Earth will be like Mars with no Atmosphere.

The Genesis God/Us will save 144,000 Virgin Males to take to a New Planet they Colonized, like the Adam Group on our Earth 'in the beginning'.

Are Humans ready to take Religious and Myth Writings as High Tech Human Fact, instead of Religious Supernatural Gods?

Humans Today Know, High Tech Humans can Colonize Planets and Reproduce Human Fetus' in the Lab and Clone Animals. That 'is' 'Super'natural Human Gods to Natural Humans without High Tech.

Dolores Lear

An ad on Bill's Blog today.

Christian Singles
Find Your Christian Soul Mate Here. Join Now For Free & Find Your Love!
www.ChristianMingle.com

A Soul Mate for a Male and Female, can only be Reproduced by High Tech Science. Rib material is used to make the Female, like Recorded in Genesis 1,2.

Body Birth Females have a different Genetic and Physical Body. Female Clones are the Same Physical and Genetic makeup as the Male. Thus they are Physical and Soul Helpmeets, not Mates, and should not Reproduce Children.

Male and Female Clones should Live in a High Tech Society of Clones, and All Reproduction is done by High Tech Science.

The God/Us in Genesis were High Tech Clone Humans, and started a New Planetary Base with High Tech Clones.

Why did the Adam and Eve Clones start Reproducing Genetic and Physical Defective Children, that then also Reproduced Defective Children, Generation After Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth?

Ever since Reproducing Humans by Heterosexual Males, Humans were and are still looking for their Soul Mate, which is not a Body Birth Mate.

Will Humans Solve this Soul Mystery, before they Blow up their Home Planet Base, with their Nuclear Bombs on land and sea?

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Bill wrote>>>>>>>>In Greenebaum's remarks, please note especially his eloquent lament that Jews often existed at the mercy of the church, but there never was much mercy. And his surprise at how brutally Christians also have treated other Christians across history.

Bill, I know your pet peeve is Xian/Jewish relationships, but at some point one just has to come to a "rational" understanding that it is "not" suprising that there has been brutality in Xianity. Like in any dogma - Muslim, Judaism, Communism, Hard core Capitalism - there will always be "collateral damage.

We as a species have to "transend" the silliness of flounting your religous undwear to everyone and showing off the holes and brown spots. It can only happen when "secularism" takes hold and "religions" and most importantly "leaders of these faiths" (all of the maijor world religions) frigging understand that we cannot rely on "possibly" god's plan for us in the future. We have to operate on assumption what's good for the world and individuals and god comes last.

A real life example - just saw some business' motto "Faith, family, then business" - priorities are completely screwed up.
_________________
Bill wrote>>>>>>Someone just paid more than $15,000 for a Bible on eBay. Wonder if any of the royalties will go in some way to the Author.

Bill, you capitalized "author" - you mean god? Why the hell would god need any royalties, #1. She is beyond money, no doubt.

#2. God is NOT THE AUTHOR OF THE BIBLE. For a person of knowledge like you are this is "unforgivable" - not just from a rational position, but also theological.

Or "author" you mean the "team" that worked on "compiling" the Bible - this "particular" version of the Bible? - New International Version Bible. No doubt it's "authors". But even that cannot be called "authors" - they are more like "editors/interpreters/mediums" relating the ancient mythology into modern language.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Bill wrote>>>>>>Someone just paid more than $15,000 for a Bible on eBay. Wonder if any of the royalties will go in some way to the Author.

I wonder how many "man/woman hours" it took to write the Bible manually? I'd venture say thousands of hours? - let's say 1,000 hours. So if you work 8 hours a day this would be 115 working days give or take. 5 working days a week - 23 weeks - ALMOST HALF A YEAR OF SOMEONE'S LIFE (one individual or ocmbined) could have been used on a soup kitchen, starting a busienss, making $ to contribute to a well in Africa, going out and promoting green movement, "interfaith dialogue" with non believers, etc.

Unless these people have enjoyed the "mental masturbation" (like we do here on this blog) I don't see any rational way to handwrite a Bible.

If someone asked you to handwrite volumenous Tolstoy's "War and Peace" or a tome of "Encyclopedia Brittanica" - I bet you you'd say "Why the hell would I do it?".

I also bet you anything if you ask a regular Xian to handwrite the Bible, they will also ask "Why?" (no "hell" mentioned :o) and will find a way "not to do so" - as god has not called them. But if god calls them (in their dream or prayer, they will do so).

During a Bible study at a Baptist church one Xian was all riled up about God's calling to spread the word. I asked him if he'll go to Iraq or Afghanistan to proletyze if I bought him an airplane ticket - HE SAID HE WILL GO RIGHT AWAY, BUT I HAVE TO PAY HIM $45,000 OF HIS YEARLY SALARY SO HE CAN TAKE CARE OF HIS FAMILY.

I was laughing all the way! - an interesting way of serving god. You Americans have a propsensity for "suffering for god in comfort" Even Jesus would laugh this Xian out of the temple.

When I mentioned that Jesus said to abandon your family and follow him and not think of tomorrow, not plan things for the future - predictably, there was silence and then an outburst of me taking things out of context :o)

So, the moral of the "handwritten" bible - enough already with this Bronze age mythology, Christians. Live in a real world - you can play in your imaginary one in your brain, god will be OK wiht that. It's by faith after all, and then deeds or is it the other way aroudn? Is it both?

Dolores Lear

Back when Eugenics was discussed on the Blog, I ordered "WAR Against The Weak", by Edwin Black. Finally Received it.

I was born in 1922, and lived through most of this era. In 1939 I graduated from High School at 17, with 1 Billion Humans in 1900, and After the WW1/2 Population Explosion, became 7 Billion Humans today.

Chapters:
4. Hunting the Unfit. 6. The United States of Sterilization. 7. Birth Control. 10. Origins. 12: Eugenic Imperialism. 13. Eugenicide. 15. Hitler's Eugenic Reich. 20. Eugenics Becomes Genetics. 21. Newgenics.

Introduction.
"Throughout the first six decades of the twentieth century, hundreds of thousands of Americans and untold numbers of others were not permitted to continue their families by reproducing. Selected because of their ancestry, national origin, race or religion, they were forcibly sterilized, wrongly committed to mental institutions where they died in great numbers, prohibited from marrying, and sometimes even unmarried by state bureaucrats. In America, this battle to wipe out whole ethnic groups was fought not by armies with guns but by hate sects at the margins. Rather, this pernicious white-gloved war was prosecuted by esteemed professors, elite universities, wealthy industrialists and government officials colluding in a racist, pseudoscientific movement, called eugenics. The purpose: create a superior Nordic race."

I lived through this, as I was a teenager in the 1930s, and in the High Tech Science Space Travel Humans in the 1960s.

When I was given this High Tech Knowledge Translation of the Bible and Myth, in the 1970s, About the High Tech Planetary Noah/Atlantis Flood, and, that Heterosexual Misbred Human Birth was the Original Sin.

It was easy for me to accept this High Tech Translation of Religion and Myth.

Susan

Bill, I am very glad about all the work people are passionately doing, to bring diverse people into greater understanding and appreciation of one another, while still respecting uniqueness. In a way, interfaith dialog is like the marriage between the Eastern idea of oneness and the Western idea of individual uniqueness.

This really fits with what I've been learning lately about the whole fractal-concept, and this site I found, www.aurosoorya.org, helps tie in what scientists have been learning about fractals, with the intriguing idea that fractals exist in every sphere of human life, not just the physical sphere. I.e. there is a "shape" to human emotions like anger.

All of life is one big interacting system, composed of various interconnected smaller systems, which are themselves made up of various inter-connected even smaller systems. So life is oneness -- and yet life is composed of uniquely-distinct smaller parts. Uniqueness is essential, for it's by interacting with the whole AS OURSELVES and not as a carbon-copy of someone else, that we bring what only we can bring to the great interaction of life.

Here's a link to a brief explanation of aurosoorya's fractal-key --

http://www.aurosoorya.org/fractalkey/whatisfractalkey.htm

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

The Psychology Of Santa - a new book just released does research on 1,200 kids letters to Santa. One of the letters talks about Santa talking to God to get their family together for the holidays. Apparently, Santa is in the hodgepodge of "All Saints" in the mind of some kids. Clearly, these kids are in the imaginary land and their parents just breeding another Satan worshipper. Don't know if you caught it last year, but the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka had a funny song "Santa will send you to Hell?'

So, Christians, remember that you mention Santa, you are mentioning a European St. Nick monicker for a "pagan holiday" of Winter Solstice. Jesus' birthday was not celebrated for a long time before the church discovered that they can incorporate "pagan" holidays of Winter Solstice into the official dogma to get more converts.

What is it about kids and the magic of Christmas? A psychology professor has analyzed hundreds of letters to Santa to better understand what kids want for Christmas.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Psychology+of+Santa+Slotterback&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
_______________________________
Hey, peeps, did you know that you can actually "stone the Devil?" Did you think that only praying and resisting temptation and sumbission to god will do? Well, not too fast.

Two million Muslims are headed to Muzdalifa, Saudi Arabia, to cast stones at the devil in the most dangerous part of the annual hajj pilgrimage, Reuters reported.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577130,00.html?test=latestnews

Susan

From Wednesday -- I wanted to respond to what Just Thinking said about Universalists thinking their way is the right way. I can't speak for all Universalists -- but as for me, the more I learn, the more I realize that the things I felt sure of yesterday were based on incomplete knowledge, so I really agree with Jacque Fresco (of the Zeitgeist Movement/Venus Project) that knowledge is emergent.

In "The Zeitgeist Movement -- Observations and Responses: Activist Orientation Guide," (click on "Movement Orientation Guide" at www.thezeitgeistmovement.com) they state two natural laws --

1)Every human needs adequate nutrition, clean air and clean water and therefore must respect the symbiotic environmental processes inherent (p.34), and

2)The only constant is change and human understandings are always in transition. (p.35)

With this in mind -- I came to the realization the other day that those who keep insisting I'm a moral relativist, are actually right. Our values/morals are based on our current understandings of the current realities we find ourselves in. So if knowledge is constantly emerging and rearranging itself, this must mean morals are constantly-emerging, too.

Which brings me back to the fractal-idea, and how this fits with what I've been learning (triggered by the Zeitgeist movie) about the similarities between Christianity and the pagan religions that both Judaism and Christianity came out of. (Continued)

Susan

(Continued) I'm seeing that the different ages of the Zodiac have different themes/shapes/systems that emerge and change how humans relate to one another and how we view the Truth. This helps me better understand why Jesus had to die for the remission of sins.

We are coming out of an age that was based on war and self-interest, an age where it seemed that the only way to meet the needs of ourselves, our loved ones, our and our own tribes/nations, was to assert our dominance over others, which supposedly "proved" our right to the lion's share of the Earth's resources. Sadly, this war-mentality caused lots of harm and resentment to build up, so Jesus needed to take it all into Himself and pay the price, to help humanity move into a new age of peace, forgiveness, and symbiosis.

The exponential growth of human technology is now bringing us into an age where we have greater access to the Earth's resources than ever before. We now have the means by which no one need ever go hungry or do without other needs. At the same time, our (the whole world's) current profit-based system requires us to stay in a perpetual purchasing-cycle -- and if we stay locked into this competitive spiral, human life won't be able to survive on Earth much longer.

Because sustainability isn't profitable -- it's just what we need for life. So now it's time to realize that our health depends on the health of THE WHOLE PLANET. United we live, divided we die. (Continued)

Susan

(Continued) Because unity/connection of diverse parts, is what life is all about. And as Reza Aslan has said, religion is the language we use to talk about transcendance (transcendance is the realization that we're part of something greater than ourselves).

You know, this explains why some who observe Charismatic church services, see similarities between this worship style and a sexual orgasm. And I think there are also similarities between these two things, and transcendental meditation. It's because all three are part of the "fractal" of ecstasy: ecstasy is really the experience of being fully-connected with the whole of Life. So the principals of how this happens seem to be kind of the same -- a repetitive action such as praise/mantras/friction, brings the people involved into a time of utter bliss.

So, there is the fractal of ecstasy, and I also thing there's a fractal of peace, and absorption and dispersion of pain/shock/anger. For instance, I learned during my labor with my youngest that water helped absorb and disperse the intensity of labor contractions and helped me relax and open up in preparation for pushing my baby out. This was in marked contrast to my labor with my first, where I tensed up and gripped the bed rail and fought against the contractions, so that after hours of severe pain, I still wasn't dilating and needed the epidural or else they probably would have had to take Baby by Cesarean.

This knowledge builds on something a friend told me years ago: when dealing with an angry person, we can choose to REACT (shoot their anger right back at 'em and feed the flame) or RESPOND (be like a shock-absorber, and try to understand and diffuse their pain).

Dolores Lear

Susan:
"Because sustainability isn't profitable -- it's just what we need for life. So now it's time to realize that our health depends on the health of THE WHOLE PLANET. United we live, divided we die."

Jesus taught the Sustainability of Life on Earth, was Equal Sharing of the Planet's Resources. And Male Celibacy.

Who ever hears about what the New Testament Recorded. When Jesus was made One of the Three Persons of God, with One 'Person Being' was a Holy Spirit, Sustainability and Male Reproduction Control went out the Window.

How come No Christian questions how Jesus run a Commune? Except Atheists. How come No Christian questions a Person in Spirit form? Except Atheists.

Because our Parents and Teachers told this to us as a Child, and when questioned were told we cannot understand these mysteries of God, and just have to obey the Teachings and the Leaders of the Church.

So when Adults, the Questions not answered make many breaks of the Christian Religion over disagreements in former Religions, and they are still making new Denominations.

Now we have the High Tech Science to Know about the Religious God Mysteries of Supernaturally Colonizing a Planet, and Reproducing Human Life in the Lab. Not Super'natural' today.

So Why are Humans still caught up in all the Supernatural Killing of Each Other and our Home Planet, when Jesus taught the Way to Heaven, was Male Celibacy, Equal Sharing of the Earth's Resources, and Turning The Other Cheek?

Humans move in mysterious ways, to Perform God's Proposed High Tech Lifestyle After Birth. What is a God Lifestyle After Death in Heaven? The Transcendance to GODs Elements.

Susan

While working in the kitchen, some stuff started coming together in my mind related to the expansion of the ministry of the divine feminine, which I started learning about a while back through Dan Brown's "Davinci Code."

We are coming out of an age that was dominated by masculine energy, wherein feminine energy was put in the service of masculine energy, in that men/warriors have often been spurred on to fight harder and be more competitive as a result of the manipulation of their LOVE for their women, families, and tribes/nations. Their need to protect/nurture the lives of their loved ones was expressed through their "fight instinct."

But just because we're moving out of that age, this doesn't mean masculinity is now irrelevant. Both masculine and feminine will always be relevant in the great web of life.

I think in the New Age, masculine energy needs to support feminine energy in its work of nurturing life and helping everyone move from competition to symbiosis. Masculine energy is needed to catalyze processess and get things going in new directions. Which is probably why in most or all of the great movements (including the Venus Project), a man has been the catalyst.

I think that in future, we won't have such a need for feminism, because the more we move into symbiosis, the less we'll feel threatened by males being catalysts, because we'll all have greater reverence for the big picture of the whole of life, wherein masculine energy is essential and doesn't devalue feminine energy in the least.

Red Biddy

Like your new photograph, Bill !

I think the issue of the Messiah being crucified, dying for the world's sins etc... will forever divide Judaism from Christianity if the audio remarks by Messrs. Greenebaum and Trice are anything to go by.

Thanks for links to those two gentleman's words, Bill, although I don't think Rabbi Greenebaum was "surprised" at all that Christians were just as brutal to each other as they were to the Jews - he actually got a laugh, from the audience, for his comment that it was a comforting thought that Christians were just as brutal to each other as they were to the Jews.

I've just watched journalist Lee Strobel's documentary The Case for Christ in which he described how connecting the dots between the Old Testament "prophecies" and the life of Jesus convinced him that Jesus was indeed who he said he was i.e.:- The Messiah, Son of God (Man). actually survived death, and all the rest of it.

I really tried to see what in the "evidence", as presented in the film, had convinced Strobel that the claims of Christianity were indeed true. If he had been an investigative journalist in the true sense I think he might have seen that trying to fit the life of Jesus into the ancient prophecies, many of which can't really be considered prophecies at all, like the Psalms......is open to considerable doubt.

It's a bit like investigating a crime scene and trying to make the evidence "fit" with some cockeyed theory what should have happened when the evidence points to something else entirely !

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Just Thinking wrote>>>>>>>You're welcome, Susan, for the Pavarotti version of Ave Maria. I specificially had you in mind when I posted that link. Thanks for posting the translation of the lyrics. What a powerful son, and a powerful concept--the Mother of God.

While we are in the Holiday spirit, why not explore logically/theologically the need for "Mother of God" - Mary at all. Surely, god is omnipotnet, why would he need a young woman/virgin? Clearly, so the "lamb of god" is without blemish and can be sacrificed.

Could the lamb of god be just born in a manger (lambs, cows, have you seen Boahl images of bull in a manger?) without any human intervention? Jesus just shows up in a manger as a baby who walks and talks and a star is hanigng over it? Why not. This would still constitute a perfect lamb.

Human parents are needed to relate a story to a commoner - you see, thre is a plan and it's just an extension of gods plan and not just "repetition" and "carbon copy". The story of the Passover lamb is retold in a differnt manner.

The lamb of god is a metaphor for sacrifical/ritualistic traditions that dealt with killing animals and burning them as an offering in scent to god. Apparently, god loves the smell of burnt flesh. Have anyof you actually burned a porkchop or lampchop or stake on grill and smelled the stinch?

(Continued)

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

(Continued)

This got me thinking, Jesus cannot be burnt as a sacrifice because dog likes animal flesh only, not human, but Jesus could have been easily stoned as it was Jewish tradition? Why waste a cross on him? Surely, you had to have Romans involved as the whole story of Jesus was a political and apocalyptical one - "the end is neigh, and god's kingdom (rejection of Rome rule) is at hand. Jesus was preaching "immediate gospel" and if he was real person had to die by the "laws of Rome" in a metaphorical sense - to die for the people as a "martyr" so he can be on public display as a common "criminal" to show how "humble" he was.

Why not explore an idea of stoning Jesus? - this would ahve been "very" familiar to every Jew at that time. Perhpas, even more familiar and resonating than crucifying him. Crucifying was not "jewsih" it was Roman, but "stoning" was Jewish, not Roman. But roman evilness had to be onnected somehow - it was by crifiction. By the way, there is some evidence that it was not a "T" shape or cross shape, but rather just a pole to which he was tied up and nailed. So, cross maybe just another invention to contrast the evil Romans.

Was Jesus supposed to die in the "format familiar" to the Jews? Well, what putting stoning him would not be? It was not the Romans who rendered the verdict of guilty, but the Jews anyway. What they did not want to "make dirty" the ritualistic stoning of a sinner the same god? - this would make sense. Better kill him as a common criminal than as a sinner.

Psycholoigcally, this would work better.

Dolores Lear

Bill:
I also like your 'beaming' new picture.

Red Biddy:
"Lee Strobel's documentary The Case for Christ, - convinced him that Jesus was indeed who he said he was i.e.:- The Messiah, Son of God (Man).

Jesus was the Son of Man. 'God'/Us in Genesis, in our Human Image was Male and Female High Tech Clones. They did put a Human Fetus in Mary, that made Jesus.
He was Celibate like them, and did also Know about the Equal Sharing Lifestyle of the High Tech Clone Species of Humans.

Jesus did go with them Alive, up into their Spaceship, and will return with them Physically in the Same Body he left Earth in.

Humans Translate the Perfect Peace God/Us in Genesis, as Spirit. The Killer Gods were from the Noah/Atlantis Society.
What do Living Spirits in Person Form, look like? Human Holy Ghosts?

With our High Tech there is a lot of adjusting to do, to all our Supernatural Teachings that we were taught as a Child, now that we have Progressed to the Supernatural God/Us High Tech Science Knowledge.

Why are Humans so against the Bible writings by Humans, being translated by High Tech Science?

Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth, still kept the Truth in their Writings, of High Tech Eternal Purebred Physical Human Life After Birth, on Planets and in Spaceships.

Instead of the Spirit Life After Death, Human can now work for High Tech Science Eternal Physical Purebred Life After Birth, on High Tech Planets and in Spaceships.

Eternal High Tech Physical Life 'is' Literally for Living Humans after Birth.

Red Biddy

You are quite right KCF, there being a shortage of wood in ancient Palestine, the Romans would have used one piece of wood in preference to two, for execution purposes.

The very idea that the Messiah has arrived and was then killed for the sins of the world, while at the same time being considered the SON of God (as well as actually being God of course!) is complete anathema to any religious Jew.

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children , neither shall the children be put to death for the father: every man shall be put to death for his OWN sin." Deuteronomy 24 v16

i.e. in Judaism you are responsible for your own sins and shouldn't fob the responsibility for them off on to somebody else !

Red Biddy

Did any of you see that disgusting exhibition by Indian Hindus recently, when, for some festival or other, they were ritually killing hundreds of animals, birds etc....?

The World Animal Rights activists were in an uproar about it and asking why they couldn't use plants instead ?

memberofKCFreeThinkers.org

A lot were crucified on a simple tree for convenience, like mob lynchings in America. Cheaper and gets the job done. But of course a shortage of wood means shortage of trees so I suppose rocks would be the choice. Can you kill by throwing sand?

Community of Reason Events for Sunday, November 22, 2009
http://www.CommunityofReason.com
Skeptical Religious Studies - Haag Hall, Room 307
* 10:30am - Ancient Mediterranean Religions
(Rome – Saviors & Divine Men)
* 11:30am - Early Christianity
(The Development of Church Offices)
1:00-3:00pm COR Sunday Program:
“Chicago's Eco-Carnival”
Benjamin Bachwirtz, 16-year-old originator of the online magazine The Greenzine.
This presentation will explore Chicago's Green Festival, an event that showcased hundreds of the Midwest's sustainable businesses and thinkers.

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

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  • Who is Bill?
    I'm the former Faith columnist for The Kansas City Star. For a more detailed bio, look under the "Check this out" headline below. For information on all my books, see http://tinyurl.com/nfaqa5. You can follow me on Twitter at www.twitter.com/BillTammeus.

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