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August 03, 2009


IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Idiocy of Creationism exposed - science & evidence vs. god


Still on John... Plugging along...

John 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

And here is the contradiction to what Jesus said in the "god inspired" Bible or is it "dictated by god?"

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men.
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die.
Was Jesus the First person to rise from dead?

Acts 26:23
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead.

But then we get this...........

John 11:43
And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

Matthew 9:23-25
And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise, He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.

Luke 7:12-15
Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her. And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not. And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise. And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.

Luke 9:30
And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias.


About the photo -- I can (sort of) understand both sides: the desire to circulate it to remind the world of what happened the last time racist hatred was allowed the upper hand -- and the desire to put it away and say HEY, we could keep going over this stuff forever: let's move on. But obviously the OTHER side isn't moving on, so where do they go from here? This whole situation is such a puzzle to me, but I have the luxury of rolling it up into one of those felt things and setting it aside 'til I feel like looking into it again. Whereas the people in the middle east can't roll it up: there it is facing them everyday.

And really I'm just kind of pretending when I say I can roll it up -- because it's a very small world these days, and we have the whole world right here in Kansas City.

Bill, I think it's fine for co-workers to discuss religion or ANYTHING, so long as they are still doing their jobs and not creating, as you say, a hostile environment. And of course respect is very important -- respect for other people's right to consider your viewpoint and decide what they think for themselves (or as you say no pressure for conversion). I'm all for free speech, so long as the free-speakers aren't being intrusive.

Iggy, after hearing of your encounter with Dan, I kind of had a light-bulb moment and I think I understand adamh better. I had previously thought he was feigning ignorance, when he acted puzzled that I took offence at his allegations that you and I were "linked" in some sort of dishonest collaboration. But now I realize that he truly IS puzzled, because dishonest collaboration is a way of life for him and his friends.

He can't understand why I'd feel insulted, because he's seriously proud of the way that he "strategizes" with his friends and is probably proud to parrot their ideas rather than coming up with anything on his own. He finds his joy in the very conformity that an original thinker would hate. I'd say "poor kid" but maybe he's happier in his little box.


Correction of my last post: the Holocaust certainly wasn't "the last time" in human history that racism resulted in horrible things. Rather, I should have said that the photo is a reminder of the horrendous things that can and do happen when racism and hatred are allowed the upper hand.

adam harrison

More on Hitler's "ethics".


And I have long pointed out that this is all not just of historical interest...the Charter of Hamas, the freely elected ruling party of the Palestinians, still calls for the destruction of Israel.

adam harrison

Bill, the Charter of Hamas, the Palestinian ruling party, cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion that you mention.

The so called "two state solution" would leave Israel only 50 miles wides at some points and simply serve as a springboard for the final destruction of the Jews in the Middle East.


adam harrison

The atheists have Theocracy Watch.

Time to tune in to ATHEIST WATCH.


Richard Dawkins on the Jews:

"The Jewish Lobby is NOTORIOUSLY one of the most formidably influential in Washington.".

Richard Dawkins, TGD, page 65

Yes, HERR PROFESSOR Dawkins, everyone knows THE JEWS are in control.


Susan said, “Yet when you guys accuse me of being a "sock-puppet" for the Atheists, and cite as absolute proof 1) my "admission" that I learned about this blog from Iggy after meeting him at a Darwin Day event, 2) my agreeing more frequently with Atheists on social issues than I do with conservative Christians, and 3) my friendlier attitude toward those who've expressed a friendlier, and less suspicious, attitude toward me and my beliefs than you have –“

I have noticed when nonbelievers are not posting here you disciples and JC, and (Just thinking if he is separate), you attack Xtians who don’t think like you on the bible. Amusing.

My immediate family, except my sister, is X and yet they think the same way I do on most major issues: like gays, abortion, humanists rights and acceptance, politicians and wars. You cannot say they are not Xs. They are by their interpretation as you are by yours----

Susan continued, “So ... when I admitted to my childish tendency to enjoy it when someone who's been attacking me "gets theirs" -- I'm basically talking about those times when you've accused me of "cackling with glee" because someone's gotten the better of you (or those who think like you) in an argument. I hope I haven't left too much room for "misunderstanding" this time. Since the police are watching this blog, eh?:)

Will/adam you two are always fishing, searching, twisting to find some kind of legal act. I think you should loosen a few nuts and lightened up. You whine like babies. If you are secure with your faith, simply pray to god for all of us to change our mind.

Speaking of prayer, this is interesting. Now the husband Neumann is convicted of a crime. Good for the judge for bringing this to attention:

Wis. jury: Father guilty in prayer death case

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

When someone is striving for power and domination (Hitler) he will find allies in all places - Muslims, or there would be fellow Catholics as well. For all we know, Hitler would have leveraged himself among other religions should they have been present and prominent then. Strive for power has no boundaries - "bird's eye view of the world"

We need to ask Hitler if he was a believer in Jesus or not - in his own words (1922) he was a Christian - "When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people is plundered and exploited."

Hitler as an atheist? - “We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.”
--Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 October 1933

It's clear that the overwhelming majority of his troops (especially SS) were practicing Christians. Statistically, the "majority" always represents a more accurate picture than one person that can be an abberration or deviation.
Regarding talking about faith at work...

This all is private business of the employer. If they have a policy on religion as well as discussing other personal matters and opinions between employees it is up to the employees to implement it in my opinion.

When you have a militant atheist BSing about "space alien Yahwheh" at work when work is supposed to be done - not good. During break time in break room or outside smoking - ok, by me. For all I care Christian crazies can proslethyze during break or smoke on their time and in an "enclosed" area - Chrisitan zoo - so to speak - no problem.

The issue will become if someone feels that there is a push and unde influence on them or others - this is where complaints may start and problem happen.

Therefore, follow Je-Zeus' "Don't be a hypocrite, pray in closet" commandment - you will not be mistaken.

adam harrison

Iggy, for the ninth time, we will all come to your Monday nite bible study! This is an UNEQUALTED OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU!

You can bring your trusty laptop recorder and Camera Phone...you know...the one you chased Jim Christensen all around an auditorium with last year! (hehehehe)

You can record all of us for posterity! Put in on you tube! Impress your friends.

But one thing, we are not going to play the "meet in the parking lot with the blinkers on game"...that was all bull.

IN fact, you said last nite that Cole was doing the Wednesday nite study, but you SEEM TO HAVE FORGOTTEN that last week he said he DID NOT go to the Wednesday nite study at all...even after he sent us an email about it!

So, you HAVE OUR WORD we will all show up if you will publically, or at least directly, say where you want us to be. After all, last time you said you were going to be late and wanted to reschedule, and then when it was too late to come back you changed your mind again.

How can you miss on such an apportunity?

We have given our word! If we don't show, you can mock us for that too!

Only one way you would MISS THIS CHANCE...if in fact there is no study at all!!!

But I was SAD last nite! If was pitiful to see a 40 year old man (I apologizie if you are not quite yet 40) crying out in the nite for another old man!

(There will be no futher communication by e mail, as we already told you, since you pubished our e mail without asking. You of course CAN do this, but we CAN also decline further communication by that method.)

Dolores Lear

"Should discussion of religion essentially be banned by custom from the work place?"

Work place discussions results in disharmony among the workers, and all Human Endeavors.

Look at Bill's Blog. This same type of disagreement, leads to hate, killing and war, all over the Planet.

All religions have a mysterious source from Out There, called God.


Until Humans translate Religious and Myth Supernatural Writings, Literally with High Tech, there can be No Peace on Earth

Humans can fly in the air, and live in an international space station above the Planet, with Religious or Atheists Astronauts/Angels.

Astronauts Live the Lifestyle taught by Jesus: Males to be Celibate, and all Males and Females Share the Resources Equally.

God/Us in Genesis, Supernaturally Reproduced, 'in their image', the Female from the Male Rib, by High Tech. They were Equal Caretakers of Spaceship Earth, like the Astronauts are of their spaceship.

With High Tech Reproduction and Regeneration, God/Us, Male and Female, have Eternal Physical Life After Birth on Planets and in Spaceships.

When Purebred Adam and Eve Reproduced Misbred Children, Unequally Male and Female, Competition and Inhumanity between Humans began.

Division of Body Birth Humans, with Genetic and Physical Disease began. Result: Inequality of Earth's Resources, Hate, Killing and Death.

Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth began, with Religion, Government, Marriage and Divorce, Fornication, Pedophiles, BLGT, and Divided Organizations.

Brother/Sister began Abusing and Killing Each Other and their Home Planet. Our Earth Home Atmosphere/Ozone Canopy, Land, and Sea are Polluted

Should Religion continue being discussed, while Humans use their High Tech for Killing Each Other with Pollution and Evil Nuclear Bombs?

What Good has come from Human Hands, folded in God Worship on Earth, while our Human Hands are Killing all Life on Earth, for their many Gods?


Iggy, the videos you linked to last night about Scientology piqued my curiosity, since all I really knew about that religion was that John Travolta, Tom Cruise, and many other wealthy and famous people are Scientologists, and that the church was getting persecuted a while back in Germany. It's some pretty weird and scary stuff.

The Wikipedia article said Scientologists aggressively go after critics of Scientology -- the stuff I read in the article made the tactics shown in the videos -- of Scientologists badgering picketers and cameramen by continuously asking them "What are your crimes?!" and asserting that anyone who criticizes their religion must have crimes to cover up -- look tame. Apparently Scientologists have even tried to legally force some search engines not to display any sites critical of Scientology, or at least not to display them on the front page or pages.

It's all a horrendous attempt to suppress free speech, which I've finally concluded is all Dan is trying to do at the K.C. Star Faith Walk column. He now says he's examined himself and God has shown him that I'm the one doing the attacking. I've challenged him to be specific and tell me how I've attacked people on that particular thread.

If my guess is right, he'll be like adamh and Will over here and never get specific -- just keep throwing out generalized accusations of "attacks" and "slander." I think you are right, Iggy, that they've been taught similar tactics to what the Scientologists have been taught: to suppress all criticism by leveling continuous attacks on the critics, in the hopes that they can prevent any real and honest discussion from taking place -- just keep the critics busy defending themselves.

So the challenge to me is to exercise Christ's wisdom in knowing when to respond to an attack, and when responding is a waste of time.


You are delusional indeed, adam. I did go to the bible study last weds., but it was turned into a missionary sermon. And i never invited any of you to join us. The only way you can have any satisfaction is to twist what I say or don't say.

Hitler bores me. He was a raging lunatic no longer worthy of conversation.

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

This coming Sunday 6 p.m. - Atheists attend Bible Study on "Book of Revelations"

If anyone is interested to come, please, contact iggykc@gmail.com for instructions. You will be given address and directions of this particular study 20 min before the study by phone or text. This will give you plenty of time to make to this church.

During this Bible study I plan to speak about "Revelations", unlike the Monday Bible study where I will be sitting quietly as a "church mouse". My goal with this Sunday Bible study is to really give it to the folks and preach the gospel of Hannibal Lector and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The group is goign to be 8-10 people. There maybe as many as 4-5 atheists and agnostics who would like to show up at this Bible study. So, the dynamics are going to be pretty interesting.

Will Graham

Iggy, now its SUNDAY NIGHT too!?!

Bahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! 20 minutes wouldn't give us time to get from Blue Springs.

Especially when half way there you would probably reschedule.

Why do you keep pretending? Haven't you used this prank enough?

Get some new material, sport!

And Susan, your VICTIMHOOD ploy is pathetic. You came on this board attacking other believers, "literalists" and "fundamentalists" especially.

And you know that the Iggy/Cole team has repeatedly attacked people, calling the "delusional", "psychotic", making up stories to get a rise out of area ministers, etc., but you continually excuse them. IS that specific enough?

Or do you want more?

So why don't you exercise Christ's wisdom and look within your own mind and see if defending them and making excuses for them is a waste of time?

Red Biddy

I don't think that meetings between Muslim leaders such as the Jerusalem Mufti and Hitler, were the cause of present day anti-semitism stemming from Islam.
Alliances between warring Western Powers and Islamic nations are nothing new in that part of the world and more to do with the Islamic nations wanting to back the winning side and win back their power in the region.
This has been going on since WWI when there was an alliance between the Ottoman Empire and Germany. Germany lost that round and so ended the Ottoman Empire. Thereafter the region was dominated by the winners of WWl, France and England.
This famous picture of Hitler and the Jerusalem Mufti clearly demonstrated that the Islamists thought or hoped that they could get their power back in the Middle East with the help of Nazi Germany. At the time this photography was taken it did look as if Germany might win. Fortunately for us in the West they were wrong but since then the British/French influence has been replaced by American influence.
I don't think Islami anti-semitism is at all the same as that stemming from Christianity. Jews didn't kill Mohammad did they ?

Red Biddy

I think we have to remember that the Arabs are also a semitic race (anthropologically speaking !) and the phrase anti-semitic can also apply equally to them as well as to Jewish people.
There is nothing to be compared to the spats that can happen in families .....and that's what is going on between Arab amd Israeli at the present time.
I think we may have to re-define the term anti-semitism as between Arab and Israeli.
I do remember a comment from a Russian Jewish friend whose family came from the Moslem area of Russia near Samarkand. who said that their Moslem neighbors were much "kinder" to them than were the White Christian Russians.
Go figure that one !!

The Secular Parent


I would like to address the subject of speaking about religion at work. As an educator, people are constantly referencing their faith: "thank the lord it all worked out" "I'll just say a prayer and put it in God's hands" or "all you need is Jesus".

I take personal offense to these statements. Not because they are of a religious nature, and not because people don't have the right to 'think out loud'.

It irritates me that the dominate faith (Christianity) makes the assumption that all other are, of course, Christian. When I hear those things and I retort in a normal fashion--acknowledging my lack of belief, for example:

"Well, I'm not a religious person, but if we work hard, we'll get things done" "For me, it's a matter of hard work, not faith" or "WE worked hard, and that's why we were successful"

people become irately angry. Why is it that people are aloud to thank god at work, but it's a bad thing to focus on the achievements of the group?

I just don't get it. www.secularparenting.wordpress.com

Will Graham

HI, Be Asia.

You may have noticed that Cole and Iggy frequently call believers names here names, like "delusional", "psychotic", mentally ill, etc.

I take personal offense at these statements.

Do you get that?

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