Faith's this and that: 7-14-09

Consider this a potpourri (which is what you see in the picture here today) posting in which I catch up on several things.

* First, I want to link you to two more commentaries about Pope Benedict XVI's recent encyclical, "Charity in Truth." Click here for one that suggests (surprise) that the media misunderstood some of what the pontiff was getting at. And click here for one that gives B-16 credit because in the new encyclical he "subverts and reverses the common understanding of 'economy.'"

* Related to that, a Catholic friend tells me that his daughter works for an investment company that has long sought to abide by some of the approaches that the pope talked about in his encyclical. The company is called Trillium Asset Management. On this page, Trillium describes itself as "the oldest and largest independent investment management firm in the U.S. exclusively devoted to socially responsible investing."

* Next, I want to introduce you to a new blog that a Christian friend of mine is writing. Because he has studied Buddhism for a number of years, his blog explores the similarities and differences between the two traditions. Click here for "Interstices."

* Do you know about the Clergy Letter Project? It's an effort to connect science and religion in ways that respect both. Have a look.

* Finally, as you may know the General Convention of the Episcopal Church is under way and goes through this Friday. For background on that, go to this site prepared by the Religion Newswriters Association. A friend who is a delegate is writing a daily diary (just for friends) that is fascinating to follow as this denomination continues to try to find its sea legs in the midst of controversy.

* * *

NOTE: Until July 21, my Internet access may be sporadic, which means it may take hours and hours for me to publish your comments. Thanks for your patience. Bill.

Comments

[Susan]

Bill, I've just started reading your friend's blog, Interstices. I will definitely be doing some hanging out there -- it's so neat to find another Christian who sees value in being informed by other faith traditions. And since I think Buddhism also utilizes Tao Te Ching, which I've begun studying, it will be good to hear some perspectives from someone who's been studying for years.

I'm also enjoying the book Cole loaned me -- "Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon" ... and, Cole, I did look at a chapter summary of "Guns, Germs, and Steel" and it looks like a must read, too. I've always liked having a lot of books going at once, only I don't work my way though them as quickly as I did before motherhood, LOL.

[Will Graham]

Red Biddy has a problem with my Pro Life position.

She tells me a woman never takes the decision for abortion lightly!

SO WHAT? Her not taking it lightly does not excuse killing; and she has just proven my point that atheists excuse killing to protect "the mothers right to choose". And the assertion that a woman never takes the decision lightly is BS anyway; there are many instances of irresponsible murderous mothers simply using abortion as a form of birth control.

Pardoxically, Red Biddy tells us that it is not all right to abort a healthy fetus.

George Tiller would have disagreed.

IN THE MEANTIME COLE MORGAN/IGOR DYBAL, the MASTER DEBATER AWAITS YOUR CALL.

Anyone can call for verification...which will establish that you two have been making up stuff about visiting ministers and "crashing" bible studies all along; its about time your game was exposed.

[Will Graham]

*****YOUR NEW ATHEIST QUOTE FOR THE DAY*****

Richard Dawkins quotes Adolph Hitler!

"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew."

Richard Dawkins, TGD, page 313

[Will Graham]

AS I have shown, ATHEIMS is both IRRATIONAL and UNSCIENTIFIC.

Science, which does not equal atheism, prides itself on the concept of FALSIFICATION...potentially, error or mistake is exposed and scientific theories are modified or even rejected.

New data relevant to the given theory also serves this purpose.

But, as I there is nothing in principle or in theory that can convince the atheists here that they are wrong...given their presuppostion that all existence, life, mind, and reason itself are the product of mindless forces.

From the Big Bang and abiogenesis, to artifical intelligence and moral relativism, (all of which they pretend supports their position but none of which is demonstrable) there is NOTHING that could FALSIFY...in principle if not in practice...their atheism.

Go ahead, some atheist give me an example of something that could, at least in theory, falsify Atheism given their presuppostions.

[Dolores Lear]

Adamh. (Yesterday)
"Dolores. He (Will), clearly stated, and I agree, that being PRO LIFE includes being against the death penalty and endless, needless, wars."

Me:
People that protested War in the past were Passivists. Cassius Clay/Mohammad Ali, went to jail instead of serving in the army, because of his religion. Other protesters went to Canada.

PRO LIFE means not Killing anyone, anything. Earth is already on Overload Life, with 6 billion additional humans, since 1900.

Nuclear Bombs on land and sea, and Pollution that is Killing our Home Planet, Humans should Accept the Reality, of what Body Birth Humans do to a Planet.

Humans have Free Will, to be High Tech Birth Purebred Clone 'Peace' Caretakers of Life. Or, Body Birth Misbred 'Killers' like Cain.

Romans 13:10-113,14. KJV. "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. - Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision, for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."

Proverbs 14:12. "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

Adam and Eve, Purebred, found out the sex act is the way of death, to Humans born by Body Birth.

Jesus taught the Way to Eternal Life After Birth, is Male Celibacy, and led a movement of Celibate males.

Jesus did go with the Creator Peace God/Us in Genesis, up into Space in a Regenerated Physical Body, and will return to Earth, Alive in the Same Body. Religion teaches this.

High Tech Human Reproduction and Regeneration, is the Way to Eternal Life, that Overcomes Flesh Lust and Death.

Purebred Male and Female Human Peace Clones, do have High Tech Eternal Physical Life After Birth, on Planets and in Spaceships, 'as it was in the beginning', on Earth.

[Dolores Lear]

Pope Referral: Charity.
"It is a force that has its origin in God, Eternal Love and Absolute Truth. Each person finds his good by adherence to God's plan for him, in order to realize it fully: in this plan, he finds his truth, and through adherence to this truth he becomes free (cf. Jn 8:22).

Me:
John 8:23. KJV. "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath: I am from above; ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

Jesus' fetus was not made by Male sex. The Holy Spirit (High Tech Human/s) put Jesus' fetus into Mary, like we do today. Jesus was also regenerated by High Tech, to go with God/Us (High Tech Humans), up into Space and to their Planet.

Matthew 28:2-6. (Mary Magdalene and the other Mary at Jesus tomb.) "And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay."

Our astronauts also wear white garments, and space helmets. There are ancient drawings of figures in spacesuits and helmets, like our Astronauts use for space walks. Purebred Humans would have to wear protection on Earth, because of our Pollution.

Bill:
"Do you know about the Clergy Letter Project, http://www.theclergyletterproject.org/?
It's an effort to connect science and religion in ways that respect both."

Me:
The Lord God/Us, in Genesis, are High Tech Human Beings, from Space, not Spirits or Ghosts as described in Religion and Myth by Natural Born Humans. Humans Colonized Life on Earth. Life did not Evolve on Earth.

[Dolores Lear]

Will:
Red Biddy has a problem with my Pro Life position.
She tells me a woman never takes the decision for abortion lightly!
SO WHAT? Her not taking it lightly does not excuse killing;

Me:
What is the excuse for any killing? The Male makes the Female with child. Until that is corrected, all Misbred Humans have Abortions, and Kill Each Other and their Home Planet.

Jesus tried to change the males in his time, by Being Celibate. It did not work, unless they also had High Tech Science reproduction of the fetus in the lab, and a High Tech Womb for Birth, instead of the Female Womb like we do today.

Otherwise, Natural Born Humans keep Reproducing with Generation Birth, Death, and Rebirth, until they again advance up to High Tech Science Birth in the Lab.

Why do males get so upset about abortion, but do not mind Killing Adults, Children and Babies in War? For God?

Is it Time to take a Look at what we believe, not what we say we believe?

There is a Literal High Tech explanation for Eternal Peace, and Good Will to All Life on a Planet and in Spaceships. Genesis tells us so.

The Truth of Eternal High Tech Physical Life After Birth, will Set Humans Free From Abortion, Killing, Pollution and Earth's Destruction, with a High Tech Translation of All Religion and Myth.

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

Red Biddy,

I am sure that any woman would not take abortion lightly - either from the standpoint of "morality", "economics", "familian situation" - e.g. abusive relationship or from the stand point of "sin against god".

It is really all within the woman's responsibility to excercise her options. It's all about options and choices and freedoms to "sin" if you want. Of course, a woman can succumb to pressure from the family, boyfriend, she may have no money to raise the child, she may not want to have a child due to being in school, wanting to pursue a carrer, etc. etc. etc.

Choices are hers, just like any "sin" is a "choice" according to the most fundamental Xians - a choice against god's will.

Now, let's look at it from this propsective of "Moral Relativism" - there are 80-90% of Christians in America (depending on who's counting) - therefore the ovewhelming majority of abortions have to happen to Christian women.

Nobody is dragging them into abortion clinics - they are making a choice.

And this is what it's all about - "control" of our choices and our "morality" so to speak.

Religious people (I mean fundies in this case) want control, they want the will of god on this Earth and of course in the next life too.

They will blame the world, atheists, secular society, demons, thetans for our choices.

One thing they don't realize that they are themselves "chosing moral relativism" - this is their choice deeply embedded in sociology, evolution and psychology.

Religious fundamentalists are hitting a dead end - they want to blame someone for something to validate their own sense of self esteem and through that "create mental equilibruium".

Kind of like a dog licks his balls - this is hygenic (like circumscision in the Middle East according to our fundies) abut also calms him down.

Religion as a crutch? Try religion as "ball licking". It appears that they also enjoy "watching" other people lick their balls and this is why they need the conflict, this is why they have to have an enemy.

[Lynne - www.kcfreethinkers.org]

Delores...
If you were trying to say that there's not much difference between living material and non-living material, I would agree.

adamh,

The reason I call "God did it" throwing in the towel is that it doesn't explain anything. HOW did God do it? According to the Bible, he said some magic words and it was there. That's not much of an explanation. It doesn't do anything to help us understand the world we live in.

All - for more on abiogenesis, check out: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/originoflife.html

Susan - serial killers often have family histories of severe and bizarre abuse in the home. There is ample evidence that child abuse can cause aggressive
behavior. It's well known that abused animals are overly aggressive. To take a more common, less extreme example how many of us have had to apologize because
we snapped at someone we love after having a bad day? I would say that hardship and unhappiness tend to make people short-tempered, aggressive, less likely
to want to be nice to other people. I think we tend to be nicer to each other when we're happy and in a good mood. I think what the study might show, though,
is that maybe people who are feeling a little bit guilty might be more likely to do good. Not "bad" in general but just "guilty" - and maybe that's the
problem with the study. Severe guilt can sometimes be counterproductive, though because it causes you to focus inward (on what a rotten lowlife you are)
rather than focusing outward on how you can do better in the future.

[Goldstein Squad Member]

Lynne agrees with Dolores that there is not much difference between living and non living material.

This or course is an irrational position, because if so it should be simple enough to create life in controlled laboratory settings.

The greatest minds in the world have not been able to pull that off...but if they ever do, it will not be by a mindless undirected process.

What amazes me here is that the atheists are the ones who are finding excuses to kill.

Of course, since when have atheists in power ever had a problem with that?

[Goldstein Squad Member]

I am PRO LIFE Dolores.

Are YOU?

[Goldstein Squad Member]

Igor, you seem to know a lot about "ball licking".

Were you abused as a child? I ask because you previously mentioned all the mean things people did to you in "the old country".

Have I ever told you about what atheists did to my relatives in "the old country".

Give us a call and we'll tell you all about it.

[Goldstein Squad Member]

Iggy, Chuck Lunney had the guts to call the Master Debater and meet with him.

How come you don't?

Just kidding...I know the REAL reason you won't call him, because it would not fit in with your plan. Bad news, your plan has already been derailed. A little "birdie told me". LOL!

[memberofKCFreeThinkers.org]

Adam said, “By the way, Cole, I don't have much praise for doctors...I think malpractice should be a CRIMINAL OFFENSE, not just Civil. They kill 100,000 people a year and you just gloss it over like mistakes will happen.”

I said nothing about malpractice. Once again you are twisting things around. And I don’t have to smear you, you do fine job on your own.

Both my parents had terrible heart problems. My mom early in life and father later in life. They both went through multiple major heart surgeries and all the medical staff was always wonderful. My father died at age 73. Should I blame the doctors for that? They only gave him an extra 19 years of life. My mother is still alive and doing great. She travels a lot! Her last surgery 4 yrs ago gave her a pig valve, a cow valve, an artificial valve and cleared the fourth valve. Amazing what they can do! I don’t recall god talking to any of us, or at least know one admitted it nor did we see or hear from any angels, much less some saints. All I ever saw in the hospital was people.

I realize there are legitimate malpractice claims, but most Doctors and staff do a great job. We have grown in world population since 1900 – 1 billion - to present - almost 7 billion. I would say they had something to do with a large part of that.

When the time comes you need medical attention, just pray and see what happens. I hope you don’t encourage family members or friends to do this.

Health
Swearing Makes Pain More Tolerable
http://www.livescience.com/health/090712-swearing-pain.html

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

[memberofKCFreeThinkers.org]

Susan, I don’t know if this survey is correct or not. - http://www.livescience.com/culture/090706-saintly-sinners.html - It’s a survey I found interesting. Something to think about. I change my mind about things whenever I find it worthy. Reading outside the box gives you info to decide for yourself.

I’m guessing, Susan, this lady at the store was a stranger. And if so, then what do you know about her? I too would like people to give because it is the right thing to do and not to work off a debt, but we are all different. A guy helped me once by giving me a ride home and now he is in prison for shooting a person. Go figure.

Glad you are enjoying the book. “Guns, Germs and Steel” is a great view of the natural world and how we as people have changed it. Some for the good and some for the bad, yet we are almost 7 billion strong!

I’m sure there will be religionists who will object to the below study, but what is new. We humans live a shorter time now because of a history of religion objecting to certain medical science advancements. Another reason I think god does a lot of damage. What can he possibly be thinking. Oh, yeah, he likes suffering…Even in the article below and the Msnbc link at the bottom tells how laws prevent some of the research. Can those laws, perhaps, exist because religions objected?

Health
Human Sperm Created in Lab
http://www.livescience.com/health/etc/090708-human-sperm-created-lab.html

Peace For the Sake of Goodness Cole

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

FreeThinking Breakfast - tomorrow Wed 8 a.m. - IHOP in Olathe (119th & Strang Line - East of I-35).

We will be Bible Thumping, excercising Christian demons and Scientological thetans, talking to the Muslim owner of the restaurant, hopefully there will be some Christians who will rush out of the restaurant and tell the owner they will never come back because they allow atheists and agnostics eat there - YEP, IT HAPPENED :o)

Any Christian reading this is welcome to come, so are Jews and Muslims and other believers and non believers, pagans, druids, Satan worshippers, etc.

Ministers and other clergy? Any of you? I'll make an offer - if you are a minister - I will buy your breakfast.

For all FreeThinking activities in KC visit http://www.KCFreeThinkers.org/calendar.htm

[Dolores Lear]

Lynne:
"Delores...
If you were trying to say that there's not much difference between living material and non-living material, I would agree."

adamh:
"Lynne agrees with Dolores that there is not much difference between living and non living material.
This of course is an irrational position, because if so it should be simple enough to create life in controlled laboratory settings."

Me:
Lynne, adamh: I do not agree with any non-living material. Do you mean the Elements that make up our body are non-living material?

I accept Invisible Living Elements make Visible Life as we Know it.

adamh.
We do create Life in controlled laboratories. We join the egg and sperm and make a Human Fetus, and put it into the Female Womb. and experiment with all types of life.

The only reason we do not finish making a Human in a High Tech Womb is because most Religious Humans are against this type of God/Us Supernatural Research.

It is harder to get resources for High Tech Human Reproduction, and Regeneration Parts for our Bodies.

Scientists now are making a Human heart, and other organs are in the works. We do not have enough donors for parts, even from dying humans.

But all of this Good Human Work for Life, is put on the back burner, when it comes to the Evil Human Work for weapons of massive destruction of Each Other and our Home Planet.

adamh:
"I am PRO LIFE Dolores.
Are YOU?"

Me:
I also 'say' I am Pro Life, and then cannot live that Way. I would not join the Armed Forces, but My protest would not form a protest group. I still eat animal meat with the blood in it.

So what does Pro Life mean, being against women getting abortions? I am for Abortion for Women, if they or their Husband or Partner do not want the Child. We have enough unwanted Orphans, and Mistreated Children all over the Planet.

[Goldstein Squad Member]

Cole, when the time came for medical treatment for my mom...the doctors abandoned her to die. She left it in God's hands, prayed, and was cured.

I don't care if you believe it. because your atheism is something that you will profess NO MATTER WHAT PROOF WERE OFFERED. I repeat...no MATTER WHAT PROOF WERE OFFERED your presuppositons would allow you to reject it.

Go ahead, PROVE ME WRONG...give an example of something that in principle, if not in practice, could convince you that you were wrong.

By the way folks, that stuff about people leaving the restaurant is PARTLY TRUE...but it was not because they were atheists. It was because they were acting like jerks and the owner was letting them insult people for laughs.

[memberofKCFreeThinkers.org]

Tomorrow morning at 8, breakfast at the Olathe I-Hop. Contact me at colemorgankc@yahoo.com and I will give directions. Do it before 7:30 am or I will be gone, “Good god Miss Molly.”

Peace fro the Sake of Goodness Cole