Seminarians and sex: 1-13-09

What's the big issue that is tearing apart faith communities these days?

Human sexuality.

What's the big issue that seminarians are learning essentially nothing about in their theological training?

Human sexuality.

Go figure.

A new study says seminaries are failing to prepare clergy to deal with the myriad aspects of human sexuality that cause division in congregations. You have to wonder why.

The study was done for the Religious Institute on Sexual Morality, Justice and Healing, founded in 2001 as what it calls "a multi-faith organization dedicated to advocating for sexual health, education and justice in faith communities and society."

I'm pretty sure a similar study done by almost any group -- with or without an agenda -- would find the same failing among seminaries.

I find this failure indefensible, given the priest abuse scandal, the deep divisions over issues related to ordaining gays and lesbians and such matters as where faith communities stand on same-sex marriage.

Does anyone want to speak up for the seminaries?

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SCHOOLS ORDERED TO STOP PREACHING

A court has ordered a Florida school district to quit promoting religion in various ways. Good for that court. At the same time, I wish our justice system would be equally vigilant when school districts and other units of government do things that unconstitutionally restrict religious expression. There are breaches of the law on both sides of this issue and they both need to be addressed.

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P.S.: Among the many Martin Luther King Jr. celebrations around Kansas City is one on Monday, Jan. 19, at the Westport Center for the Arts at Westport Presbyterian Church. Click here for information.

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ANOTHER P.S.: Yes, you may be reading the main postings here and even some of the comments left by readers. But have you seen what else is here under the "Check this out" headline on the right side of this page? Explore.

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AND YET ANOTHER P.S.: I wrote yesterday about Rick Warren, whom Barack Obama has chosen to give the inauguration prayer. But did you see this story about the minister he chose to preach at the national prayer service the day after the inauguration? Seems like a choice more in line with Obama's theology.

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A FINAL NOTE: Anger about what's happening in Gaza is growing, and my hope is that the fighting will end immediately and that Israel and the Palestinians can move toward a permanent peace that means security for both. But there are incendiary voices adding to the anger needlessly and with simply outrageous words that must be condemned. One such voice is Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who recently prayed that Allah would kill Jews "down to the last one." Look, Israel is far from blameless in the continuing Mideast turmoil, but this kind of radical and hateful language hurts the Palestinians' just desire to live in freedom much more than it helps it. And Israel understands that al-Qaradawi is not alone in expressing such a desire.

Comments

[Goldstein Squad Member]

Bill, the court order regarding the the school districts "promoting religion" in various ways is as good an argument for PRIVATE SCHOOLS as any.

After all, the Secular State wants YOUR KIDS and that is the purpose of the Public Schools. If you want to seek a different purpose and obtain a better education you are not going to be able to sacrifice your children to the STATE.

[Goldstein Squad Member]

A little follow up on the comments regarding that atheist MICHAEL SHERMER; his thoughts on the Creation of the Universe.

Comments Welcome! (Warning, this is a board where the Christians actually answer and refute atheist speculations!)

http://atheismisdead.blogspot.com/2009/01/michael-shermer-and-greatest-miracle.html

[Goldstein Squad Member]

Oh, and since Dan Barker is supposed to be appearing around here, or has appeared, or something, perhaps we should brush up on a favorite of the local atheist groups and AMERICAS LEADING ATHEIST!

http://freedomfromdanbarker.blogspot.com/2008/12/freethought-without-forethought-part-8.html

[Dolores Lear]

This week's promise: God is always fair and just
How do you respond to God's justice?
"For the Lord is righteous, and he loves justice. Those who do what is right will see his face." Psalm 11:7 NLT
Loving justice.
Because God wants justice, he will be on our side when we are oppressed and when we lose father, mother, or spouse. He will be fighting for us and will be with us through it all, encouraging us, defending us, and pleading our case. - And, oh yes, don't forget to encourage others with that trust as well."

Me:
How can Jews, Christians, and Muslims, use the Same God for Killing Each Other?

Does the Same God Encourage, Defend, and Plead Their Case? Do They All Encourage Each Other, with God's Trust in Justice?

How did this Peace God get Divided into so many Religions? With A Lifestyle of Peace and Trust in God?

Where is the Trust of Jews, Christians and Muslims in their God of the Bible?

In their weapons of Massive Destruction? How can the Christian USA Nation, be the World Power, with Military Bases all over our Home Planet?

What does having the Trust of God mean? Peace or War? Does the God of Peace, lead his Children into War? Along with his Son, the Prince of Peace?

Why are the Peace God's Children in many Countries, fighting against Each Other in War?

The Majority Population of Earth, has the Peace God in Genesis. Where is God's Justice? In the Strongest Military?

To Worship in Temples made by Human Hands, while they Kill Each Other, and their Home Planet?

Before our Nuclear 'Arm'ageddon War to End All Wars, will Fallen Human Worshipers of the Peace God, Repent their Killing Way of Life?

The Peace God of Justice, is a God of the Living, not the Dead.

[Goldstein Squad Member]

ON a lighter note, more on FUNDAMENTALIST ATHEISTS from KANSAS BOB:

http://www.kansasbob.com/2008/12/you-may-be-fundamentalist-atheist-if.html

Just a little humor!

[memberofKCFreeThinkers.org]

When I have a car problem I take it to a mechanic. If I want food I go to a restaurant or a grocery store. If I want an education I go to an appropriate school. If you want religion go to a church. It’s pretty simple. If it’s any other way you are trying to influence others.

Sexuality is such a natural issue in the natural world. Common sense and education from family members and schools is a must. Including religion in public school is just another way of preaching dogma.

Restricting sex among clergy is just nuts. I believe this is part of the sex problems of denominations like Catholicism. It’s so difficult for me to understand such restrictions have been going on this long. Sacrificing such a natural pleasure is so unnatural. If clergy want to talk of sin this should at the top of the list of things to correct. I’m glad to see some are addressing it.

america’s war on SEX by Marty Klein is a great read. Funny, sad and full of interesting facts. Peace For the sake of Goodness Cole

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

How Did Life Begin? RNA That Replicates Itself Indefinitely ...
Chemicals That Evolve in the Lab May Simulate Earth’s Earliest Life
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&nolr=1&q=RNA+replication+indefinitely&btnG=Search

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Bill, the study about the state of sexual education in seminaries goes hand in hand with the most recent study on teens who took abstinence pledges (do news.google.com search on it) Apparently, in the nation that is allegedly Xian (65-75%) and has some special covenant, we have to face the fact that prayer over sex, ministers sermons, also parents attedning the services and any sort of church induced behavior HAS NOT BEEN WORKING - IN SHORT, FAITH IS NOT WORKING. These teens do not have a lower pregrancy rate, use birth protection less, and also 80% of them DENIED THAT THEY EVER TOOK THIS PLEDGE 5 YEARS AGO! I'd also be interested to know about the abortion rate among them. I think religious "crazies" are finally coming to realization that "original sin" and "free will" are overtaking their god and that praying to a jar of milk vs. space daddy Yahweh is equally productive. When they start understanding that CONCRETE ACTIONS AND NOT RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AT THE EXCLUSION OF THE MORTAL WORLD AND NATURAL CONSEQUENCES are more important to move us forward, only then we will be able to move forward. Otherwise, there are pleny of other countries on the forefront already waiting to jump ahead of the US.
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The Natural Order Of Things - by Matt Ridley, Spectator
Matt Ridley says that Darwinian selection explains the appearance of seemingly ‘designed’ complexity throughout the world — not just in biology but in the economy, technology and the arts
http://richarddawkins.net/article,3513,The-Natural-Order-Of-Things,Matt-Ridley-Spectator
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The religious find a friend in the law - by Philip Hensher, The Independent

A RATHER INTERESTING APPROACH TO DECIDING ON THE QUESTION OF GOD FROM ADVERTISING STANDARDS.
There's surely something very strange about asking the Advertising Standards Authority whether there is a God or not. Under the direction of Lord (Chris) Smith, the former publishing director of Hello! magazine, the managing director of Boots Opticians, the Poet Laureate and other members of the ASA council are being asked to rule on a question which has occupied philosophers for centuries. http://richarddawkins.net/article,3512,The-religious-find-a-friend-in-the-law,Philip-Hensher-The-Independent

[Patricia]

I had quite a discussion with my sister over the Christmas holiday, regarding the choice of Rick Warren. She very much sees his selection as an attempt by Obama to heal the nation and reach out to Warren's constituency. I have trouble seeing it as anything but politics as usual: using religion to reach a given demographic. Ms. Watkins or like would have been much more preferable to me, but then there's the fact that she probably would have alienated many.

Since alienation is a given with any choice, why not simply do the right thing?

[Patricia]

Al-Qaradawi is very wrong to issue such an evil prayer, regarding the Jews.

I believe that it's one thing to condemn his words and another to take his words and words like his, as an excuse to commit other wrongs or evil acts, many more grievous than mere empty words or threats or prayers.

It is impossible to determine who threw the first punch in the ongoing battle between Palestinians and Israel. (If we say it is the rockets of Palestinians, we can counter with the 53 Palestinians killed by Israel during the cease-fire, embargo, and the continuation of growing settlements.) There are Palestinians who would like to see all Jews dead and commit heinous terrorist acts against Israelis, and there is Israel committing heinous terrorist acts in far larger numbers against the Palestinians. U.N. Humanitarian rules are violated with no ramifications. The actions of both sides are interpreted by some as genocidal.

There's a reality on the ground. Israel practices what amounts to Apartheid. The Arabs are cordoned off within the "main" lands of Israel and relegated to the ghetto of Palestine, where living conditions are atrocious. When South Africa practiced Apartheid, we condemned it. And although we also condemned the killing of white farmers by blacks, we understood there was an injustice in the system that had to be addressed.

Israel is doing itself no favors by its actions. It is radicalizing those that it must live among and killing off the moderates. Former supporters of Israel find themselves in the same position that I find myself in: questioning whether or not the continued existence of the religious state is worth it.

If religion does not bring a higher morality with it, then what purpose is there in supporting a religious state?

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

Bill, I don't know but I think you have some sort of a divine revelation about topics you write :o) Here is one about sex from EXCHRISTIAN.NET site I found interesting and quite disturbing.

A few years ago, I attended Mars Hill right before Easter. Mr. Driscoll was at work convincing his audience that the Resurrection was a historical event. He said, “If the Resurrection didn’t literally happen, there’s no reason for us to be here. There are parties to be had. There are women to be had. There are guns to shoot. There are people to shoot.” Now, if all that is standing between Mr. Driscoll and debauchery, lechery and murder is some belief that a literal Jewish rabbi literally rose from the dead 2000 years ago, I’m very glad this is what he believes. Some people shouldn’t have their religion messed with. But did you catch what he was implying about the rest of us – all the Christians who think of the resurrection as a symbolic, spiritual reality and all of the non-believers who think of it as bunk? Depraved. Utterly. http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2009/01/sex-sells-even-in-church.html
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I Took The Red Pill

The Final Nails in the Coffin
I had been a part of National Geographic's Genographic Project earlier in the year. The results linked me to an ancestor who came up from Africa 40,000 years ago. I wasn't blind to the fact that science kept butting against my religious beliefs, but I tried to ignore it. I really started to play with the idea of atheism by October. I tried to hang on to church as much as possible, but I was getting no where with God. He wasn't answering me anymore. I stumbled on this site (quite literally, thanks Stumbleupon!) and started reading the testimonies of others like me. One stood out, though I cannot remember the author's name, he said something to effect of whispering that God wasn't real. It sucked the breath out of me because in that moment I felt the exact same way. It left me shaken. I grieved at first. It was like losing my best friend, the love of my life, the foundation my life had been built upon. I initially described it as the worst break up ever, but a death is probably the more accurate description. I started investigating the Jesus of history and realized that more than likely he is nothing more than a fictional character. There was most certainly a great deal of suffering involved in this experience.
http://exchristian.net/testimonies/2009/01/i-took-red-pill.html

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

Instruction Manual for Life
A CARTOON VIDEO OF A KIDS JOURNEY WHEN HE UNDERSTANDS THAT SOME OTHER KIDS MANUAL FOR LIFE IS JUST THAT "OTHER" AND FOLLOWING IT WITHOUT QUESTIONING IS NOT THE PROPER WAY.
http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2009/01/instruction-manual-for-life.html
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For all FreeThinking activities in Kansas City visit http://www.KCFreeThinkers.org/calendar.htm

ATHEIST BIBLE STUDY - This Sunday, 7 p.m. Check calendar for FULL details. Two topics will be covered - "Is US a Christian Nation?" and "Homosexuality in the Bible"

We'll talk Proverbs 29:18, 1 Peter 2:13-17, Romans 13:1
http://www.afn.org/~govern/Christian_Nation.html
The Treaty of Tripoli
The letter to the Danbury Baptists
Questions to discuss;
Did the founding fathers automatically assume the
nation to be "christian"? Did all "men" have the same
rights? Who owned slaves? Did women have rights?
What biblical references are there for a christian
nation?

Homosexuality;
there are three main passages to read;
Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and 1 Timothy 1:9-11.
and http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm
Questions to discuss;
Is homosexuality a 'Choice'?
Why was the amendment in CA passed? (banning gay marriage)
Should we as a nation allow for 'anything goes' lasse fair (sp)?

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[Nancy]

A comment on the "Seminarians and Sex" topic. As I reflect on my seminary education, there was not much discussion of human sexuality and what discussion there was focused on LGBT issues and sexual harassment concerns. While these are important topics there was a real lack of education about human sexuality and reproductive health issues in general. From my personal experience, I wasn't well equipped to thoughtfully discuss the ways our religious beliefs shape our understandng of human sexuality. I supose that is a function both of an already crowded curriculum and our cultural reluctance to talk seriously about sex.

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

FREETHINKING POSTCARD MAILING CAMPAIGN TO A SMALLTOWN, USA IS UNDERWAY... Check out http://www.KCFreeThinkers.org/smalltown.htm

PART I

We have an e-mail list of about 400 owners of Yahoo and gmail atheists and freethinking groups all over US and Canada. We'll be e-mailing them shortly with proposal to embark on a freethinkg postcard campaign to a town and will see if we can find some freethinkers there in town who can be our eyes and ears on the ground.

The Web site that will be created for this particular campaign will have an option of "volunteer to be a liason" with the town. Surely, out of a 100-200 peple in that town, there will be statistically maybe not 20% but at least 10% of freethinkers (as it is most likely going to be a conservative town), so over longer exposure ot the message these eople can come about and tell us what exaclty is happening in there, what kind of talk is generated there, they can also maybe copy newsppaer articles if this small town paper doesn't have a web site and forward it to us. They may also run a freethinking group in that town and organize charitable activities, educational events.

To be Contintued with Part II

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

FREETHINKING POSTCARD MAILING CAMPAIGN TO A SMALLTOWN, USA IS UNDERWAY... Check out http://www.KCFreeThinkers.org/smalltown.htm

PART II

E.g. if there is one church or two churches in town, we can send a postcard like this to capture attention of parents and kids "Are your kids going to XYZ Baptist and ABC Methodist Church? Announcing a field trip to Science Museum in BIG TOWN NAME for just for them, you as parents and anyone else who wants to come. Be at this address at 8 a.m. Saturday. RSVP by e-mail at XXX@ggggg.com or phone XXX-YYY-ZZZZ so we know how many people will come. We will carpool for more fun!" A message like this will surely rile up the clergy, will attract attension of the parents, and surely some kids who will pick up mail (the postcards will be bright in color, so they are impossible to miss, the color will stay the same to have a better association with the freethking campaign - e.g. canary yellow and black ink)

The card will have nothting to do with the church, they don't speak on behalf of the church (they can be even tweaked to "Do your Chirldren and You go to a SMALLTOWNUSA CHURCH? - it is truly irrelevant) is protected by the First Ammendment of free expriession, it targets kids and paretns who live specifically in that town and those locals who are in that town and would like to come along.

This kind of a slow and factual "freethkinging attack" on a small town would be an interesting psychological experiment. If it works, it can later be taken to the neighboring zip codes and the county where it has been conducted as the word will spread around and then slowly to the state level. Voter registration records can be used to obtain a mailing list of eligable voters and they can be also targeted by REpublican, Democratic or Independent affiliation. Democrats can be hit first as they are the the most "freethinking" vs. Republicans, dont' go to church as often as Republicans and have a more open minded ideas (as per Cole's e-mail the other day and link to the Gallop poll)

[Lynne - www.kcfreethinkers.org]

Why would an atheist think torture is wrong?

Since there is no God, all people have is each other. We're social creatures, therefore to be happy we need to treat each other right.

Since there is no God, any justice or fairness that exists in the universe has to be imposed by humans. If we want fairness, we have to create it ourselves.

Torture uses the excuse of interrogation to cause gratuitous harm to people, most of whom are innocent of any wrongdoing. No useful information comes from torture. If someone was torturing you, wouldn't you make up lies and confess to things you didn't do just to get them to stop? If you were guilty, wouldn't you provide misleading information?

The worst evil in the world is tyranny - people need freedom in order to thrive - the relationship between the tortured and the torturer is like someone living in the worst sort of dictatorship. And like I said before, without God we only have each other and I don't want the world I live in to be a world in which that sort of thing is acceptable.

In order to allow torture you need a whole torture-social structure in which there are people making the decisions as to who to torture, how much to torture, under what circumstances - then you get into who is going to do the actual torturing? Are they allowed to be sadistic thugs who enjoy that sort of thing? If not, would being forced to torture someone as part of your job cause you psychological damage? What sort of people would take such a job in the first place? And who is making all these decisions and why should we trust them?

Every government using torture uses the ticking time bomb scenario as their excuse, but that's not how it works in the real world. The same person who makes the decision to torture is not the same person actually carrying out the orders. Most people being questioned are not guilty in the first place and most "information" you get from torture is bogus. Hitchens argues that you only need a little good information but that requires torturing many times more people that you don't get important information from. So do we use those people as a means to end, instead of an end in themselves? Remember, people being tortured for info haven't been convicted of anything - we don't know that they even have useful information in the first place. So to get one needle in a haystack you torch the whole haystack? No, that's insane.

Governments don't use torture to get information. They can get the same information in other ways. (In fact, there are studies showing that treating your captives kindly can help you obtain much more useful information!) The real reason to torture is to take their anger out on other people, to dominate other people and to deny that they are even people in the first place. That is how torture works in the real world.

See also the Humanist Affirmations:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?page=affirmations&section=main

[Will Graham]

Not sure my last post went through, but I get a kick out of KCFIGGYS post card campaigne.

AS "Hawkeye", he proposed the same plan over a year ago (Dec. 2007 Bill Tammeus archives, referenced on the right hand column.)

Of course nothing happened, and if you look on their site for the list of donations for the billboard flop, you can see why!

However, more power to them!

If they want to target some small town in a discriminatory fashion that will be hilarious...notice he calls it a FREETHINKER ATTACK...NOT A FREETHINKER INVESTIGATION.

Freethought? B.S.

Stay tuned.

[Will Graham]

Bill, I don't know if you have noticed, but Iggy is bragging over at their site that he has shut down religious discussion on your blog in the past 6 months.

Of course he is imagining things, because looking back almost everything he has posted has been answered, but he simply ignores it and pretends like it isn't there!

I guess that is what he means by shutting down discussion...ignoring refutations and refusing to engage.

Somewhat cowardly if you ask me.

[Will Graham]

Oh, I meant to indicate, Bill, that this is where he is doing the bragging and naming names.

He is so far out to lunch on this that I even feel a little sorry for him.

http://www.kcfreethinkers.org/smalltown.htm

[Will Graham]

Lynne, your assertions about what is right and wrong are understandable, but they bear no logical relation to the non existence of God.

If such were the case, we of course would not exist to be talking about it, but if so would be free to do what we were compelled to do! LOL!

After all, Richard Dawkins says we are our DNA and we dance to its tune!

And you may assert your view of what is right, but many atheist did not and do not see it that way.

Sam Harris is just one example.

Marx thought economic factores determined how we should order society.

Nietzsche claimed that the Will To Power was ALL, and that the weak and defective should be eliminated. (Something many atheists agree with.)

Freud thought are motivations were determined by unconsious psychological factors and reason was not the paramount drive.

As for you, your assertions are comfortable and politically correct, but, as I said, bear no relation to atheism if you are defining it as the claim that there is no God.

[RichB]

I have mentioned this issue of a lack of sexuality talk in seminary with my former classmates. My former dean even wrote a book after retirement about same-sex attraction. As far as I know, even that book hasn't entered into the education. My experience of seminarians has been that they are overall obsessed about sex, while trying to stay "above it" at the same time.

I have met homosexual members of my church, closeted and not. My church is not entirely accepting of homosexuals, but includes a lot of stubborn people :)

My friends and I are very interested to see how this issue will be resolved. Our church really doesn't know what to do with homosexuals, or, to be honest, with heterosexuals, either. What is it to be sexual and Christian? That question doesn't get asked much.

[Dolores Lear]

Bill's Blog:
"The Religious Institute on Sexual Morality, Justice and Healing, founded in 2001, - "a multi-faith organization dedicated to advocating for sexual health, education and justice in faith communities and society."

Until Fallen Humans accept that Male and Female Sex for Reproduction was the Original Sin, we can have all the studies but it does not change Fallen Humans.

Religious writings restrict the sex act, to between husband and wife for Reproduction. All other Pleasure sex acts was Sin.

The Male and Female Reproduction Sex Act, was the Original Sin of Purebred Adam and Eve Clone Helpmeets.

Without the High Tech Science Knowledge Translation of Human Reproduction in the Lab, God's Ways to Create Humans without Body Birth, were Handed down as Supernatural.

The sex act of Purebred Adam and Eve, Resulted in Breeding Defective Cain, Abel, and All Genetic and Physical Defective Humans since.

Generation Body Birth, Death, and Rebirth Resulted. Killing, and All the Lesser Sins of Fallen Human Life Began.

Fallen Humans have Overpopulated our Home Planet, Divided into many Races, Nations and Religions.

The 7 Deadly Sins began: Lust, Envy, Pride, Greed, Anger, Gluttony, and Sloth.

Fallen Humans have set up the End Time 'Arm'ageddon with Nuclear Bombs, to destroy most of the Overpopulation and our Land area.

How many Humans will remain for the End Times Judgement Day with God, our Human Ancestors, in our Image?

Once the few are Regenerated to Purebred and Saved, our Pollution will start Burning Planetwide and the Judgement Day Fire will finish Prophecy in the Christian Bible.

Eternal Life, Really is for the Living High Tech Humans, not the Naturally Born Dead Humans.

The Scriptures, Myth, and High Tech Science tells us so.

[Will Graham]

Cole Morgan, if you want atheism, you don't come to a relgion blog.

If its any other way, you are trying to infuence others.

By the way, why do you advertise an information line for your organization but never answer the phone or even return calls.

Is your organization for real, or not?

(And why, when you give directions, do you require a party to meet in the parking lot of Peters Clothiers with their blinkers on! Bahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! I mean, thats crrepy!)

[Nancy]

RichB, I think you are exactly right when you write, "Our church really doesn't know what to do with homosexuals, or, to be honest, with heterosexuals, either. What is it to be sexual and Christian? That question doesn't get asked much." My church/denomination is in the same situation.
I suspect once we think seriously about that question, we will gain some clarity about other questions related to sexuality.

[Red Biddy]

Just in case you all missed this piece of news: - openly gay Episcopalian Bishop Gene Robinson has accepted an invitation to give the kick-off inauguration prayer at the Lincoln Memorial next Sunday. This should calm the anti Rick Warren people down a bit shouldn't it ?
Obama has certainly spread his invitations around to the different factions within the Christian communities but has anyone noticed if he has included Jim Wallis author of God's Politics: Why the Right Gets it Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It ?
"Jim Wallis is a major prophetic evangelical Christian voice in the country.He refuses to allow the religious Right to have a monopoly on morality and spirituality; he also calls for the secular Left to speak to the crucuial issues of personal meaning and individual values." (Cornel West)
Bill - would you know if Wallis has been included in the celebrations next week ? He's a really "good" guy - so is Gene Robinson Red Biddy

[memberofKCFreeThinkers.org]

Will, feel free to call our website and leave your phone number and we will call you back. We don’t have any messages left by you, so how would you know we don’t reply? And I have never given any directions like you are referring to.

Sex is a private thing. It’s actually nobody’s business unless it’s against somebody’s will.

Rick Warren said, I am naturally inclined to have sex with every beautiful woman I see.” Hey, wait a minute. Doesn’t the bible say something about if you think it, it’s equal to doing it and ‘that’ is a sin that can keep you out of the pearly gate social club. We must not forget about thought crime.

Rick Warren - It Doesn't Matter if You're Biologically Gay http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIQEm2l2Cr8&feature=related