« A Christmas reading: 12-24-08 | Main | Looking to '09 for churches: 12-26-08 »

December 25, 2008


Will Graham

William Lane Craig debates Bart Ehrman...


Dolores Lear

Merry Christmas All. Have a Happy Day.

Joe Barone

Why is it that so many churches (and maybe even religious groups) are built around the strength and power of men? I don't know the ins and outs of the FLDS mess, but I do think every one of us should demand that our churches protect the children in them.


May we never forget that Jesus, Mary and Joseph were among the poorest of the poor. It might be useful for all of us to go back and read Matthew 25 on Christmas.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

To follow up on the article the other day about a Florida church that threatened to publicly revealed woman's sins after she quit the church, here is another very detailed article on a musical director at a mega church who was fired for being gay - http://www.ocweekly.com/2008-12-18/news/mariners-church-bob-gunn/1.

It is a 5 page article and is rather complex with lots of legal twists and suprises, to mention just one the same gay music director let someone in the choir go and publicly announced it to the choire several years back.

I am not really sure if I want Xianity to go away - this theology is a gift that just keeps on giving with examples of "irraitonality" out of wazoo.

Cannot but shake your head on the way religous people of different denominations cherry pick the Bible. There is talk about ABSOLUTE MORALITY - where in the world is the absolute morality that all these

Dolores Lear

Today we celebrate the Birth of a Child. A Child, not conceived by his Father Joseph, but by God in an Immaculate Conception in Mary.

There are other recorded Children reproduced by barren females, including John the Baptist, and, Isaac, Sampson, and others in the Old Testament, by God and Angels.

Other Religions had Myth Gods, and Miracle Immaculate Conceptions. Humans without High Tech Science, translated these births as Supernatural.

Today, we Reproduce Supernaturally in a High Tech Lab, by joining a male and female seed, making a Fetus, and putting it into a female womb, like God and Angels did.

High Tech Reproduction 'in vitro', is a Miracle Conception today, for a couple, or, for a single male or female.

Humans, again, Know how to Colonize a Planet, Travel in Space, and Reproduce Children without the Heterosexual Sex Act. All Acts of Man Gods and Angels.

We do Not have a High Tech Womb for making Perfect Genetic and Physical Human Adults, like the Lord God did with Cloning Eve from Adam's Rib. We do Clone copies of the same sex in animals.

Our High Tech Joining of the Two Seeds into One Child, in the lab, is sometimes up to Seven, instead of One.

Will Fallen Humans Understand and Accept, that High Tech Science was on Earth 'in the beginning', or, did Life and Humans really Evolve on Earth, up to our High Tech today?

In the End Times, will Fallen Killer Humans blow up our Home Planet, with Nuclear 'Bombs bursting in air, by the Dawn's Early Light'?

This 'will' be a Planetary War, and 'Literally', the Final War to End All Wars.

While God our Ancestors, will be in their Holy Temple, their Spaceship. 'They will be Back', for the Judgment Day.

Will Graham

Scholar Ben Witherington, who studied under Bruce Metger (just as Bart Ehrman did) explains Ehrmans mistakes:


Dolores Lear

This week's Daily promise, 12/25/08: God will give you peace
Where do you find peace?
"A child is born to us, a son is given to us. And the government will rest on his shoulders. These will be his royal titles: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. His ever expanding, peaceful government will never end. He will rule forever with fairness and justice from the throne of his ancestor David. The passionate commitment of the Lord Almighty will guarantee this! Isaiah 9:6-7 NLT

You will keep in perfect peace all who trust in you, whose thoughts are fixed on you! Isaiah 26:3 NLT

I am leaving you with a gift—peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give you isn't like the peace the world gives. So don't be troubled or afraid. John 14:27 NLT"

Peace is a person
"His peace of mind came not from building on the future but from resting in what he called "the holy Present." C.S. Lewis on George Macdonald."

It is Time to Live in the Holy Present, with Equal Sharing of the Resources, and without Nuclear Bombs, and without Have and Havenot Brothers/Sisters.

Eternal Life and Peace, is for Living Humans After Birth, and for Living Atoms After Death.

Will Graham

Cannot but shake your head on the way atheists posing under different definitions of atheism cherry pick the Bible. They talk about morality, but where in the world is the morality of all these.

Dolores Lear


What do you consider Moral, for God and Country?

Not being an admitted Agnostic or Atheist, about Religious Movements? Is the Christian Religion the only Moral Example for Humans on Earth for you?

Exactly what Christian Morals are Humans Living under today? Christians and any Religious Humans, who are Killing Each Other and our Planet is not Moral. Their God says so. Are they doing it for God, or Country?

Reproducing more Defective Genetic and Physical Humans then our Home Planet can Support, is not Moral, for God or Country.

Worshiping GOD, the Creator of the Elements that make Life as we Know it, or, the God in our Human Image, our High Tech Ancestors that Colonized Earth, in Temples made by Humans Hands, is not Moral for God or Country.

Having Starving and Homeless Brothers/Sisters of Life, on our Home Planet is not Moral for God or Country.

Polluting our Earth Home, Species, and Ozone Canopy, is not Moral for God or Country.

So what are your Moral Standards, for Fallen High Tech Humans on our Home Planet? Should they be for God or Country? Or Both?


The more I read and study people I see how needy they are. It’s a shame we can’t live in the real (natural) world and not rely on a supernatural one, but rely on ourselves. The other day on Bott network a Minister was saying over and over, even into the next program: “Life is hard, god is good.” As I’m listening to this I’m wondering if people are truly listening to this absurdity. If god is loving and good and knows all, why is life hard and we are born of sin. Little babies are born of sin so life is hard on them? Wow!

Perhaps if we thought on our own, maybe things like a child with diabetes, only prayed for and died, and what is happening to Rebecca Hancock, things will change. We can only hope. Anyway: Merry Xmas, Happy Holidays and Happy Fetivus to All Peace For the Sake of Goodness. Cole

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org


You wrote about FSLDS ranch "I also believe underage children were in effect being abused for religious reasons."


You don't hear about
* atheists in America taking underage brides, religious crazies do
* atheists condemning homosexuals, religous crazies do
* slavery in America was ordained by god and actively supported by church and populace
* atheists don't their 11 year old diabetic daughter medical treatmetn, religous crazies in Wisconsin recently did
* atheists are not saying that believers immoral people, religious crazies do
* you don't hear from atheists that religion must be expelled from the public square but only kept away from the governemtn's preferential treatment or appearance of endorsing, religious crazies want special treatment
* you don't hear atheists saying that evolution and science are evil, religious crazies do
* should I continue?

Even moderate/secular Christiansserve as a breeding ground for "crazy" brothers and sisters in Jesus. Connection through blood of Jesus is stronger than human DNA to them and just plain humanism, certainly god's law is above any other law. It is remarkable that they themselves prove the "absolute morality coming from god" as a falsehood because they just like you, Bill, above have different ideas on Xianity and also "cherry pick" whatever fits them from the Bible.

Abuse is the mental and educational and intellectual disgrace that any theology (Xianity specifically) imposes on the children and also adults. Religion must evolve into humanism and it is slowly (check out Rick Warren's glowing statments the other day he loves gays vs. his remarks on immorality of gays) The irraionality of "I hate the sin but love the sinner" is beyond any logical comprehension. It is abuse of human intellect by religion - this is very inhumane, but again when you have an "inhuman god" (Yahewh is definitely not human, but an alien creature, how can one rely on inhumane morals?)

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Spirituality Linked To Brain Function

According to a new study by the University of Missouri, spiritual feelings may actually be the result of a lower-functioning right parietal lobe, the area of the brain that defines a person’s sense of self.

The study, which was published in the journal Zygon, was done by first monitoring the brain activity of dedicated religious members, such as monks and nuns as they went about their spiritual rituals, but the results were inconclusive, so they moved on to studying patients who had suffered recent brain damage.

More at Scientific American http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=brain-activity-altered-during-relig-08-12-24

The more religious of the bunch seemed to have less activity in the right parietal lobe unrelated to their brain damage, which could potentially lead to a less developed sense of self-awareness and individuality. This may also explain why often people with a higher religious or spiritual belief seem to have added mental and physical health benefits, as their beliefs dictate a greater awareness for others, rather then on self-defining actions and behavior.

Will Graham

Here is an amusing article for those enamored of the "copycat thesis" during the Christmas season.


Will Graham

KCFIGGY talks about things you don't hear about atheists doing.
Does he even remember what he posts? He says atheists don't say that atheists don't say that religion should be kept from the public square...NONSENSE.

He has many posts on these threads saying that believers need to SHUT UP and INTELLECTUALLY SUBMIT and keep their views in their own heads.

And is he trying to say atheistis don't engage in child abuse, like he accuses delusional believers of doing? My own cousin was raised by an atheist, I can tell you plenty about that.

Shall I continiue?

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Hello all, Christians and non-Christians!

I just want to make sure everyone knows about the charity, Kiva.org that makes micro loans in increments of $25 to entrepreneurs in developing countries. The atheist group issued a challenge to Obama and Christian teams. Now, the group has beaten the Kiva Christians by $10,000.

If you're a Christian or non, Obama or McCain supporter, atheist, agnostic or a Jew or Mulsim, here is your chance to support a great program! Your can join a Christian or any other team on the site.

Wasn't there something about teaching someone to fish in the Bible? - well, how about you give someone an opportunity to own their own business and provide for their family?

Atheist loan-a-thon is described in this link. You can


Would love to see more names and loans from Kansas City in there. If you do decide to join us please make loans in $25 increments. That is, if you want to loan $100 please do it in four loans of $25 each. That's because the default ranking in the Kiva community is based on number of loans. We are ahead in number of members and total amount loaned... but we want to be in first place based on the default settings!


The Obama Kiva group will be answering our challenge with a loan-a-thon of their own on January 20 to celebrate the inaguration.

Everyone wins in this challenge!

Lynne - www.kcfreethinkers.org


You asked why so many churches are built around men. It is for the same exact reason why some churches or cults do crazy things like abuse children - authoritarianism. Almost all the evils of religion can be traced to authoritarianism and authoritarians tend to be patriarchal. There is a wealth of psychology research on the evils of authoritarianism. IMHO, the best way to escape religious authoritarianism is to reject religion and become an atheist but because I know most people won't take this advice the next best thing is to take authoritarianism out of your religion.

One very simple and effective way to do this is to promote the ordination of women in whatever church you're in. It's not enough that the women be involved, they have to have equal authority and decision-making power compared to the men. This also prevents child sex abuse since perpetrators are almost always men. Women should always be in charge of anything having to do with children - it's the best way to protect them.

IGGY - www.KCFreeThinkers.org

Rick Warren is changing his tune and softening his stance on gays.

I came across this interesting web site analyzing Rick Warren's stand on gays http://www.religiondispatches.org/blog/sexandgender/904/is_rick_warren_gay/

Also, there are references to the old archived page of his church on gays and then the new page that talk about homosexuality.

Combined with today's post about brain research on spirituality it is apparent that more and more poeple (including religous) are accepting that homosexuality is "natural" and nothing to worry about.

After all JESUS HAS NOT SAID A SINGLE WORD ABOUT GAYS, so apparently, he did not think that they are going to hasten the arrival of the second coming and Judgment Day.

75% of Americans are OK today with gays serving in the military compared to 45% 15 years ago. A 30% jump in 15 years is pretty remarkable.

If only now we can get religous "crazies" stop interfering with the secular government and pray in the closet with shut doors as Jesus commanded in the Sermon on the Mount we can be making progress even faster.


All religions have been based off men, that is who controls them, because of this people like Rick warren, who also umbrellas X groups and individuals like Billy Graham and Pat Robison to say the hateful things they get by with. Has anyone heard of “do unto others…? It is so often, how can we make you like us.

I think this new research you talk about, Iggy, lower-functioning right parietal lobe, proves what I have been saying for some time. Not only is it environmental, but genetic, also, why non believers are able to get through life successfully without imaginary gnomes. Man created gods. And maybe you are right, lynnehs. Women would do a better job. Man’s record isn’t very good so far. But I will have to say who needs it. Lets do it on our own. Check out the new game SPORE.

Join Kiva and make a difference!

For the Sake of Goodness Cole -having fun- Morgan

Dolores Lear

I do not only think Churches are only controlled by men, until recently, so are Government and most families, because of Religious teachings, of Man Gods and men in charge period.

Now I Know that there is a Human Species that has Equality for Male and Female, because they are born that Way. Perfect Females made from the Male Rib in Genesis, finally made led me to accept, with all our High Tech Science in the 1900s, about Cloning.

It just makes Sense for the Equality of the male and female with no Children, to cause division of duties and male Dominance, to be able to be Peace Caretakers of their Planet and Each Other.

Male and Female Clones compliment this type of Pair. Each have their Specialties and make One Whole Unit. When this was divided by Heterosexual Body Birth of their Children, all types of Divisions resulted with the female being the Baby Keeper, and lost her Equality.

All divisions and problems today are because of the Original Sin of Making Misbred Humans, with the male more dominate. Equality went out the door.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

My Photo

About Me

  • Who is Bill?
    I'm the former Faith columnist for The Kansas City Star. For a more detailed bio, look under the "Check this out" headline below. My Twitter handle is @BillTammeus. Friend me on Facebook and you'll see this blog every day in your feed.

Become a Fan

MoJo Blog Ring

  • MOJO Bloggers
    Bloggers with connections to the University of Missouri School of Journalism.


Blog powered by Typepad

Google analytics


  • .