Some Protestant unity: 11-19-08

One of the realities of Protestantism is that it is simply atomized. That is, the result today of the Protestant Reformation, which began nearly 500 years ago, is a hundredyskillion different denominations, it seems.

Yes, there have been many efforts to bring some harmony and even unity to the Protestant world, but mostly it remains awkwardly divided, though these days that usually doesn't mean bullets are flying between churches.

So I find it encouraging when I see efforts to undo some of the separation that has marked Protestantism almost from the beginning.

The most recent example is happening in the part of the Protestant world in which I locate myself -- in the Reformed Tradition, which traces its roots to such people as John Calvin and John Knox.

The World Alliance of Reformed Churches (WARC) is joining with the Reformed Ecumenical Council (REC) to become the World Communion of Reformed Churches. At a meeting recently in Utrecht, Netherlands, the two groups held their first joint session of their governing bodies.

The union meeting is scheduled for next June in Grand Rapids, Mich.

Ecumenical News International reported recently that about two-thirds of the 41 members of the REC already are members of WARC, which is made up of 214 churches.

"At its core, Reformed history is a history of separation," REC's president, Peter Borgdorff, told ENI. This move is designed to reverse some of that history.

The meeting in Utrecht, by the way, was hosted by what is now known as the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, which has 2.5 million members if 2,700 congregations.

(Note: Nearly every day I notice that one of my blog readers checks in here from Utrecht. I wonder if that person works for the Protestant Church. If that person reads this, perhaps he or she would send me an e-mail telling me if I'm right.)

At any rate, this new merger won't change Protestantism, but I find it's a good example that perhaps others can follow to bring more harmony to Christianity.

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SOME COMING FAITH DEBATES

As President-elect Barack Obama moves throught this transition period, one of the issues he'll have to deal with is his relationship to various faith communities, including the Catholic Church. There are, after all, more than 60 million Catholics in the U.S. This Time Magazine piece, for instance, raises the question of how Obama and Pope Benedict XVI might clash on abortion. But this won't be the only issue and not the only faith community whose views Obama will need to consider, given the growing diversity of the American religious landscape.

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P.S.: If you saw or read about the "Bodies Revealed" exhibit earlier this year at Kansas City's Union Station, you know that there was plenty of controversy about whether the bodies in the exhibit were obtained in ethical ways. Now a free day-long conference about all of this will be held at the Downtown branch of the Kansas City Public Library on Friday, Dec. 5. For details, click here.

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ANOTHER P.S.: The excellent PBS show, "Religion & Ethics Newsweekly," is scheduling what looks like an especially interesting show this weekend on the way the Internet is affecting religion and how faith communities are adapting to the online world. Check local listings, but in Kansas City, the show airs at 12:30 p.m. on Sundays.

Comments

[Will Graham]

There are not a "hundredskillion" denominatons. Funny that you have to start out with a gross exaggeraton to set up your argument. (Even it that is an attempt at humor, it is obviously also an attempt to "poison the well" from the start.)

And the Protestants have a remarkable unity of belief, but I think what offends you, Bill, is when anyone stands up for anything.

It leaves you powerless to reply, even to those, like the New Atheists, who would like to see the discussion shut up entirely.

[Will Graham]

I don't think a major issue for Obama will involve the faith communities.

I think he could care less. If he could sit through the trash talk at Wright's chruch, and I have some of his full sermons, for twenty years it is clear that he saw the church as a springboard for action and beliefs are irrlevant...that leads me to believe that he probably an atheist or an agnostic. (especially considering some of the derogatory remarks he makes about the Bible, especially the OT.)

But if the economy continues to spiral into a depression, and needs a new major war and the DRAFT to save it...thats what got us out of the Hoover/Roosevelt depression, then he is going to be a one term President.

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

Last night at KS FreeThought group a topic of Christianity having a common "enemy" for them came up. Recently, evolution in school, bashing gays and pro-choice laws and "activist judges" as well as "Christian founding fathers" have been in the forefront of the "cultural wars" of the "value voters" so to speak.

Who & what would be Christian targets when these cultural wars are all settled in favor of EQUALITY AND RATIONALITY? Sooner or later this will happen. As the most recent poll of Washington Post/ABC showed in 15 years acceptance of gays came up from 45% to 75% from 1993. This is oustanding and remarkable, also shows the flexibility of the Americans to accept change and brush away silly beliefs.

When gays are widely accepted and protected by "EQUAL opportunities laws", when overwhelming population today is for EQUAL access to abortions even late term abortions (like George Tiller provides in Whichita - overwhelming majority are medical abortions) what other targets/scape goats will Christianity determine?

[Dolores Lear]

Protestantism has many Children, like Abraham's Jews and Muslims. Protestants get along like the descendants of Abraham.

Each Group thinks they have the Truth of Life, and Kill Each Other. What will One Unity Solve, more Divisions Divide than Unite.

"God's Daily Promises" 11/19/08. "This week's promise: God is always calling us back to him" "The consequences of unconfessed sin"
"If I had not confessed the sin in my heart, my Lord would not have listened. But God did listen! He paid attention to my prayer. Psalm 66:18-19 BLT"

What is an Unconfessed sin? How can anyone Confess the Unconfessed sin, when in a Fallen Body? There are so many Inherited Genetic Stumbling Blocks to avoid.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Until Fallen Humans understand this verse is about Reproduction, Sin and Death cannot be conquered.

Humans today do Know How to Reproduce without the Male Lust, by joining the male and female seed in the Lab, to make a Human Fetus.

Humans put the fetus back into the female womb, without correcting all the Inherited Genetic and Physical defects, that resulted from centuries of Misbreeding.

We have the High Tech of the 'Gods', 'in our Human Image, that Created Human Adam and Eve Clone Helpmeets. Sin did not begin until the Clones started Reproducing Inbred Children, and Body Birth Misbreedin, is the Name of the Game of Life, on Earth.

Religions can Unite and Divide until Judgement Day, and the Results will not Solve the Mystery, of the Original Sin of Perfect Humans, that Reproduced Imperfect Human by the Heterosexual Male.

Eternal High Tech Physical Life After Birth, is for Living Purebred Humans, not the Dead.

[Joe Barone]

My own analysis of denominational groups joining: Most of it comes out of panic because Protestant denominations are declining in numbers. I don't know anything about the union you cite above, but in the U.S., I think such unions only put together two weak groups which continue to weaken.

And just to head off some discussion--People try to assign the weakening of Protestant denominations to all kinds of causes (incorrect theology, etc.), but basically, I just think it is demographic. The U.S. is becoming more diverse and Christianity is becoming a minority religion in this country.

Even Roman Catholicism is facing diversity-caused changes which make its bishops uncomfortable (i.e. 54% of Catholics voting for Obama).

Particular forms of Christianity may be blossoming in other countries, but I suspect there is a cycle which will lead to growth and decline in those countries too.

[Joe Barone]

Yesterday, some TV commentator listed the areas in which the Roman Catholic hierarchy agreed with and disagreed with Barack Obama. Disagreements included things like abortion and stem cell research. Agreements, things like the Iraq war and capital punishment.

My response to that was, "In that regard, all's right with the United States. We still have separation of church at state."

[Will Graham]

And who is the common enemy for the Freethinking Atheists, KCF?

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

God Trumps -by New Humanist

Struggling to choose the top religion? Can't decide between Bible-thumping evangelism or benign, gentle Buddhism? Make the process fun and easy with God Trumps, our cut-out-and-keep metaphysical card game for all the family. Cartoons by Martin Rowson.

http://newhumanist.org.uk/1915

[Dolores Lear]

Religion is the Common Enemy of All Humans on Earth.

Do Christians, Know Jesus taught Action, not Beliefs. The Christian Beliefs Began when Fallen Humans made Human Jesus a God.

That is what divides so many Humans on Earth, since the Fall, is their Supernatural God Worship, and rules of Conduct in Churches made by Human Hands.

Even sharing Beliefs does not Unite but Divides.

Bill did not exaggerate there is No Way, to count all the Ethnic Divisions of Protestants on our Planet, except for the Major Groups, and they are still Dividing.

Instead of Taking Care of GODs Temple our Planet, and the Life on it, Humans Divide and are Killing Each Other and our Home Planet.

Jesus Taught and Lived, Sharing Actions of All Things Equally, with Each Other, and, Male Celibacy. Who is Following Jesus, who is following Religion Worship?

Actions in GODs Temple, Prove More Acation is Needed, than Religious Words in a Pagan Temple.

Killing Life, including our Earth Home, Each Other, and Starving and Homeless Brothers/Sisters of Life, does not show Any Protestant Actions or Any Religious Actions, of following GOD, God, Jesus, or any other Religious God.

Protestant Actions are the Same as All Past Religious Actions of Worshiping God Religions,instead of Taking Care of Our Home Planet and the Life on it.

IF Humans do not Take Care of their Home Planet Who Will? GOD, God, ?

[memberofKCFreeThinkers.org]

Just for the record, there are about 32,000 sects of Christianity. Maybe more. For the Sake of Goodness. Cole

[a theist]

32000??

Really?

First, name a hundred.

Second, so?

[Just Thinking]

The most divisive issues these days are in regard to various sins. In that regard, nothing has changed in 2000 years. It's not enough to repent and be forgiven of sin these days. Some sinners insist that their sin be deemed acceptable by the powers that be. It's not enough to accept sinners into a Church--the sinners now want the Church to accept the sin.

There has been a continual push over the past few decades to declare that the most fundamental right that a person can have is the right to sexual relations of any kind. Slowly but surely "if it feels good, you have a right to do it" has become fundamental. So fundamental that if it results in an unwanted pregnancy, then the right to stop the heartbeat of the unwanted child also becomes fundamental. Because after all, how can we possibly conceive of placing restrictions on free worship of the sex god. Sex is an idol for many. Children are regularly sacrificed to this idol, laid dead at the feet of the stone sex god.

Nearly all splits in the Church today are over wanting more freedom to freely explore sin without guilt or encumbrance. Sometimes these splits are caused by the rejection of sinners. Other times splits are caused by people who believe that some sin should be a right. Both are wrong. And so are those who split over such issues.

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

JT wrote>>>
Some sinners insist that their sin be deemed acceptable by the powers that be. It's not enough to accept sinners into a Church--the sinners now want the Church to accept the sin.

JT,

Solution is simple - church needs to INTERVIEW people before they take their money and do it regularly, like every week or month and be firm with them on the quality control of sinners and how sinful they can be.

The reality is churches NEED BODIES AND SOULS TO MAINTAIN THEMSLEVES and keep critical mass. Hence, churhces will cling to anyone, and I am sure there is a quote somewhere in the bible about that sinfulness of churches :o)

Wasn't there something about "body being your own temple?" This is the soultion of getting rid of the sinful nature of the churhces - close them all down :o)

You hit it on the nail - you guys want to sin :o) comfotabley and not be judged for it :o) - Christians are evolving. You guys are getting the "secular" point of keeping up wiht the Jones'.

Otherwise, you all have to be eunichs :o)