Bridging faith differences: 11-21-08

I have said here and elsewhere before that Christianity's many divisions are a scandal and a terrible model for the world. As a Christian, I say that these divisions must break the sacred heart of Jesus.

So I'm always pleased to find news of various branches working to overcome some of this distressing picture.

Today I want to look at several recent developments involving the largest single branch of Christianity, Roman Catholicism, and its relations with other branches.

First, the Evangelical-Catholic Dialogue, as it's called, met last month again and this time issued a joint statement on the meaning of the death and resurrection of Jesus. In other words, the statement was about the subject of atonement, for which there really is no exhaustive explanation or theory.

Catholic and evangelical (yes, there is some crossover between the groups bearing those labels) scholars still have disagreements, but it's reassuring to find them able to come to some consensus about one of the core areas of Christian doctrine.

Next, Catholics and representatives of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America have been talking over varioius points of theology for decades. In their most recent gathering (the sixth meeting in Round XI, if you can believe it), they added to their discussion list a study of the sacrament of Holy Communion, or the Eucharist. That link will get you to the Catholic explanation of the news. Click here for the Lutheran explanation.

Catholics and Protestants have been at odds over the Eucharist nearly since the beginning of the Protestant Reformation almost 500 years ago. So I doubt we'll see any resolution of these differences soon, but it's a good sign that the subject is on the (Communion) table. It would be like Sunni and Shia Muslims agreeing to talk seriously about the issue of leadership succession that first divided them soon after the death of the Prophet Muhammad.

Finally, the Catholics and representatives of the Orthodox branch of Christianity in North America continue to talk over differences and common ground. Most recently they've been discussing what it means to be a sacramental church. At the end of the page to which I've linked you here you'll find links to the 22 statements of agreement that this Catholic-Orthodox consultation has produced since it was created in 1965.

Which I guess is proof that these ecumenical discussions haven't always resulted in irreconcilable differences.

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KINGLY BURIAL PLACE FOUND

The tomb of King Herod the Great may have been found near Jerusalem, this report says. From what I understand, however, he's still dead.

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NOTE: It may be difficult for me to read and publish your comments here today through Monday. I hope to get to them but my Internet access will be quite limited. So if it takes awhile, it's not that I don't like what you said -- well, unless that's the case, too. Thanks. Bill.

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P.S: Normally at this point I'd tell you what my Kansas City Star column tomorrow is about. But my final Star column was published last Saturday. The column was canceled for economic reasons. If you missed my explanation of all that, click here.

Comments

[Joe Barone]

Two brief comments--I dislike the doctrine of atonement. I can't visualize a God who charges ransom for souls. (That should cause some discussion!)

And second, does it strike anybody but me as ironic that the Roman Catholic church so often uses the Eucharist as a way of excluding people? According to the Pontifications blog, there's some priest somewhere who wants to exclude people who voted for Barack Obama from the Communion table until they repent.

I say these things as someone who was raised Catholic and, much to my sadness really, had to turn away from that.

[Will Graham]

I know what you mean about being sad about having to turn away from something, Joe.

I had to turn away from support of Obama when I learned he was opposed to providing medical treatment for babies born ALIVE after botched abortions.

And when I learned about the originator of his tactics of Community organizing...Saul Alinsky.

Alinsky's tactics are frequently used by the atheists who post here...ridiucle, marginalization, not reponding to those who disagree, as you also do:

http://atheism-analyzed.blogspot.com/

[martin]

Jesus said that his disciples would be known by the way that we show love to one another. Too often, I'm afraid we fail miserably at that seemingly simple command. Thanks for raising awareness of this issue.

[Dolores Lear]

All Religions need a High Tech Science Translation, for their Beliefs, made from Scriptures about Supernatural Gods, translated by Humans without any High Tech Science Knowledge.

The Gods/Angels had Visible Life Forms in our Image, called Higher 'Beings' that do not Die.

Our Human Ancestors, the Religious Gods In Our Human Image, flew up in the air and out into Space. We have that High Tech Science today, and Know Humans can fly up in the air and out into Space.

We Know How to Reproduce a Human Fetus, and Clone Animals 'Super'naturally in the Lab. That does not make Higher 'Beings' until we correct their Genetic and Physical defects in the fetus and make a High Tech Womb for Birthing.

All the needed information to Solve the Mystery of High Tech Human God Actions, and Fallen Satan Human Actions, can be Solved using Past Supernatural Information.

Eternal Physical Life After Birth is possible, if Humans today would use their High Tech Science, for Eternal Life After Birth, instead of for Death.

Human Energy today, is used for a Massive Population Explosion, Toxic Pollution and Weapons of Destruction. This Literally, is Not Showing Love of GOD/LIFE, or, Our Home Planet.

GODs Wrath is Unbalanced Elements.

Thou Shalt Not Kill Each Other and Your Home Planet, is Changed to Worship God, Kill, and Die, and have Eternal Life After Death, until Resurrected in the Same Human Body for the Final Judgement Day.

Eve was Reproduced from Adam's rib, and today this should be Called Cloning. Cloning in a High Tech Lab is Supernatural Birth to Fallen Humans.

Humans should stop Reproducing Heterosexual Born Killers of LIFE, and Use their High Tech Human Energy, for Eternal Physical Life After Birth on Planets and in Spaceships.

Amen

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

GROBAL FORECAST: YEAR 2025

Futurists say the Middle East may become more secular, and religion's appeal will continue to decline in the United States.

http://www.voanews.com/english/Science/2008-10-29-voa37.cfm

[Just Thinking]

The Catholic Church became the Catholic Church when it declared the Bishop of Rome to be the Bishop over all Bishops, elevating the Bishop of Rome to something like 'head Apostle.' The Church should have learned from Jesus that the way to be greatest in the Kingdom was not to grab power, but to be the best servant. I suppose that human desire and lust for power would eventually come into play. It was inevitable that one Bishop would want to trump the others, resulting in one of the worst and most serious divisions. The Catholic Church has never stopped asserting its 'special' position ever since.

Did it glorify God or did it glorify one group to declare the Bishop of Rome to be a 'special' Bishop over all Bishops (i.e., Pope)? It was NOT to God's glory! It was one group of people seeking to glorify themselves. They were 'special.' They were Dad's 'favorite.' You can really see how ridiculous the efforts to be Dad's favorite were. Look at how the Pope dresses. Look at the fanfare. The Pope is glorified to be a substitute for Jesus. Why? Because to assert that one Bishop would be above all the others requires the invention of 'special' powers. The Pope is the superhero. He is declared to have 'special' powers of doctrinal discernment (all the other Bishops are automatically wrong in disputes). He is declared to have 'special' powers for Communion, etc. It's all artificial construct that began when one group decided they were 'special.' They created a monster.

Jesus was clear about people who do not seek the glory of God: they seek their own glory. Those who seek their OWN glory inevitably become exclusionary and divisive because undesireables detract from THEIR glory. Nevermind that they add to God's glory.

[Dolores Lear]

"God's Daily Promises, 11/21/08.
This week's promise: God is always calling us back to him Have you embarrassed your heavenly Father?
"Such people claim they know God, but they deny him by the way they live. Titus 1:16 NLT"

Me: What is the Way a Child of God should Live? With Allegiance to Government Over God? Kill Each Other and their Home Planet? Leave a Denomination if they teach Different Accepted Man-made God's Rules?

What God Rules? Sharing GODs Resources Equally, and being Equal Caretakers of Life on their Home Planet, like stated in Genesis? Or Man-made Religious God Rules, like Eating Jesus' Body and Drinking Jesus' Blood?

Why did Fallen Humans make so many different Religions, with so many different Rules as to how to Live for the God, in our Image?

The GOD, not in our Image, made All Life Elements that make Life as we Know it. This GOD is not a Human. We are not in this GODs Image.

So who is the Image we are in? The Human Gods, Goddesses, and Angels who made Humans in their Image. That flew in fiery chariots up in the air and out into Space?

The Heavenly Father, Lord God we Embarrass, is not GOD, but our Human High Tech Ancestors. Although the Lord God made Adam and Eve Purebred, Fallen Humans do not Know Why, the Adam and Eve Clones made Misbred Human Children by Heterosexual Body Birth.

Until we Solve this Mystery, we will have Humans Worshiping in temples made by Human Hands, and giving Allegiance to their Government, and Killing Each Other and their Home Planet, until the Judgement Day.

Bill: "Christianity's many divisions are a scandal and a terrible model for the world. As a Christian, I say that these divisions must break the sacred heart of Jesus."

I agree. And also our Human Ancestors hearts, that Colonized All Life on Earth.

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

For all upcoming freethinking activities in KC visit http://www.KCFreeThinkers.org/calendar.htm

SATURDAY

* 3 p.m. is "Addicted to Something?" class by Greg Swartz - Westport Coffee House

* 7 P.M. A MUST TO ATTEND!!!! -
"Atheist Bible Study with Christians" - "Is God Imaginary?"
This promises to be an interesting Biblical ride. Bring your Bible and laptop for wireless browsing of Net resources and using them right away - we may have two teams "pro and con"

SUNDAY - is packed!!!

* 7 a.m. Voice of Reason Radio show

* 10 a.m. Skeptical Religious study

* 11. a.m. Science & Sci-FI book club

* 1 p.m. Community of Reason

* 3:30 p.m. Always funny, chatty and informative cross organizational meetup at Planet Sub on 49th & Main.

[Will Graham]

Population growth and decline of world atheism; although thends vary, the fact that atheists tend to have smaller families will slow and limit growth:

http://www.geocities.com/richleebruce/b/atheist.html

[KCFreeThinkers.org]

WWW.KCFREETHINKERS.ORG PROFILED ON 10 O'CLOCK NEWS ON KANSAS CITY TV KSHB CHANNEL 41

Tune into Channel 41 tonight at 10 p.m.

Cole Morgan and I were interviewed this evening by Channel 41 News about our local KCFreeThinkers.org meetup groups and our billboard. Cole was very upbeat about all the meetup groups that we have got going - from just a couple of groups at the beginning of the year to the wide variety of groups all over town.

Apparently, the reporter read the story about KC Freethinking community in the Wall Street Journal which mentioned our group. The WSJ reporter heard about American Humanists and Free Thought Action advertising on Washington DC buses with the theme "Why Believe in a God? Be Good for Goodness Sake!" Free Thought Action had our billboard/group prominently displayed on their site and it looks like this is all generating publicity.

The reporter was wondering how religious people would perceive the boards on busses and Cole was very positive about another outlet and vehicle of promotion of freethinking that reaches another group of people.

The reporter also said that James Webb of Community of Reason was interviewed and asked about his opinion of the billboards in Washington DC.

Enough of giving away secrets, tune in for 10 p.m. news!

[memberofKCFreeThinkers.org]

It is a shame that good causes can’t get on the same page. We Atheists experience this, too. So often people want to stay in the past and not move ahead with a new order. This is how I see religion and non-religion. Until the new groups of each of these categories can work together to be fair and nonjudgmental, it will be a long war. Let’s shorten it by respecting each other and stop messing with one another’s civil liberties and live in Harmony. For the Sake of Goodness. Cole

[memberofKCFreeThinkers.org]

Bring your Bibles people, tomorrow night and lets have a discussion. Who knows, perhaps we all can learn something. I’m for education. How about you? BlackDog Café, 7 0’clock. Be there or be square. 87th and Rosehill Rd. For the Sake of Goodness. Cole