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December 29, 2007


A Real Freethinker

Whatever their respectives faiths, one person I would never vote for is an atheist.

The primary reason being that the atheist believes there is no higher value than himself, that he determines his own morality.

As the Atheist Troll Iggy has said here many times, a persons morality is what it is. Of course, the idiocy of this is that if that were the case he would have no basis to condemn ANYONE, much less theists.

We have seen what an officially atheistic education has done to him, reducing him to a condition where he believes repeating things like "I am going to visit the wrath of Hannibal Lector on you" are funny.

To a condition where he thinks forcing the oppostion to SHUT UP (as he says religious people must do and they must keep their beliefs private) is intellectual victory. (And of course, these were the tactics of the system he was raised in; he still does not understand freedom of religion as it is here in the United States.)

So no way I could ever vote for an atheist.


Huckabee doesn't get it. People are not upset about him mentioning the name of Jesus. They are upset about him mentioning the name of Jesus, in order to get votes.

"Jesus, the Vice President Who Will Tell you the REAL Truth about Weapons in Iraq." This is after Jesus blew it as Vice Governor, when he conspired to release the rapist to go harm more women. And when he also failed the country as George Bush's sidekick in bringing democracy to Iraq.

It attempts to make Jesus look cheap and cheesy and, frankly, incompetent. Huckabee IS cheap and cheesy and incompetent. He should take full credit.

Dolores Lear

Almost all the President's of the past, all had some type of war, or rumor of war in their term/s. Most were Protestants.
So how do Christians Presidents justify their faith, when their Gods said "Thou Shalt Not Kill" or "Turn The Other Cheek"?

So what would be so different, if an Atheist became President? Would this stop the Killing? Atheists have Morals also. Are they the same as Christians? What 'are' the Morals, of God the Father of Human Life on Earth, and Jesus?

Does anyone, including Christians, follow the Moral Rules of the Father and Jesus?
1. Love God/Life and do not Kill your Eco System, but be Equal Caretakers of your Home Planet, 'as it was in the beginning'?
2. Love your Brothers/Sisters of Life, as yourself, and do not Kill them, but Share Equally the Resources on your Home Planet with All Life?

Does this sum up what Jesus said, when he left the two most important Commandments for Humans to Live By?
But the Catch is, how can we keep reproducing more Humans, than we can feed, clothe and house? Do we have to put a limit, on how many Humans are a safe number, for our Home Planet Spaceship?

In our mini spaceship, the international space station, what would happen if the Humans populating it, would also reproduce while aboard? Does it require a different ASexual/Celibate lifestyle, to live on a spaceship? Since Earth is also a spaceship, why not all Humans be Asexual/celibate? Why do we overpopulate our Home, and pollute it, with the overcrowding of Life, with Polution and Nuclear Waste? How long would our international space station last, with Body Birth, and without getting rid of their waste?

It is Time to understand, Earth 'is' like a international space station spaceship, with all the resosurces aboard, to be shared Equally with all the Life on it. We do not have a space shuttle that will being in more resosurces, so why keep making garbage dumps all over the planet, because no one wants to be a Caretaker Species of our Home Spaceship?
Why do we feel compelled, to kill off all the extra Brothers/Sisters, that make scarcities, instead of stopping reproducing this massive population explosion?

Now we are back up to the High Tech Science Knowledge of reproducing a fetus in the lab, without the sex act. So to control the overpopulation of our Spaceship Home, should we put a stop to the the Body Birth reproduction of Humans, and only reproduce more Humans, as is needed for All Passengers to be Equal?

We do need a new set of Morals to stop the Overpopulation, and the Polllution, and the reproduction of nuclear bombs that cover our Home on land and sea. And stop the 'Arm'ageddon War in the Mid-East.

Jesus' Asexual Agape Love and Peace, is the example and answer for our Fallen Planet.

Dolores Lear

You can also comment on Bill's column in the K.C. Star paper.
I also put a comment there today.


It would seem that the monks have hit on a good way to both provide a needed service and generate income. This story follows an NPR story regarding monks who provide a more high-tech service. It mentioned that they really rely on the income. "Monks Praise the Inkjet Deal" http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2003/06/59256

I have a relative who is a farmer in Iowa and a member of a little country parish that struggles financially. They already share a priest with four other churches. The men of the parish hire themselves out as gravediggers, in order to make money for their little church. They operate off of donations, so a poor family may give them nothing. But the fees they collect can mean the difference between being able to pay for the new church roof....or not.


Bill Moyers' Journal last night focused on capital punishment, redemption, and forgiveness. An interview with Desmond Tutu is inspiring, although I've not watched the entire program that I recorded. You can watch the entire program here:

Joe Barone

Patricia, I'm just finishing a book you recommended--Gershom Gorenberg's The End of Days: Fundamentalism and the Struggle for the Temple Mount.

It was a great book. Thanks for telling me about it. --Joe.

A Real Freethinker

I am glad you are opposed to the death penalty, Patricia.

Are you also opposed to the death penalty for the unwanted fetus or sick old person?

Hawk Eye

Goldstein :o)

About 15% of Americans would vote for an atheist :o) so it's OK if you don't.

Just in case, I have no problem to vote for any Presidential candidate if they are religious because I am judging them not just on their religion, but other issues and religion enters only "which one is THE STUPIDEST WHEN IT COMES TO SCIENCE AND ENLIGHTMENT" - to me very few Republicans would qualify :o) I'd vote for Guliani or Ron Paul, but not for the rest of the "religious ingoramuses when it comes to Englightment." There are some democrats who I would not vote for, but I WOULD VOTE FOR A RELIGIOUS PERSON AS A PRESIDENT ;o)

You say you will not vote for an atheist, kind of tells me who is more open minded :o)

Reminds me that I will accept god as a poosiblity :o) while you will not accept the world without god as a possiblity - so who is more open minded :o)

How is that debate going :o)? I cannot wait to slap you on your "cheeks" that you'll have to turn to me according to your space daddy Jesus :o)

You state that just because "atheists" determine their own morality you will not vote for them?

So, you are saying that you as a religous person do not determine your morality? You actually chose the morality that is prevailing in the society and then add layers of it determined by your family, your coworkers, your neighbors, what you read, etc.

Not understanding this basic principle of morlaity and ethics formation puts you in the ranks of people who really say they are open minded :o) but they are not :o) - as I illustrated above.

Wow! I talked for 50 min yesterday with a minister at an Evangelical church in Kansas City. I basically shamed him into intellectual submission about morality, bashed his brain that he is delusional if he thinks to be a normal person I need his space daddy Jesus, that he needed his values reevaluated if this is his thinking.

He disagreed but it is irrelevant because he agreed that we have a common "cause" - he said he'd like to talk to Community of Reason about a join community service action.

So this will be interesting. I am sure he did not like my personality and wanted to know what's missing in me when it comes to transcendent. I talked to him about the fact that I don't have a single religous bone in me and never had as a result of othe official atheistic edicuation :o) and told him that he was delusional if he htought I needed somethign supernatural in me to donate blood, be nice to my kids, have great sex with my wife, play with my dog, etc. I am sure he did not like it :o)

Your apparent hang up on the official atheistic education clearly blinds yous because there are 10-20% of non-religous Americnas in the US :o)AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT :O)

I know what I can do :O) - I will continue shaming ministers into sumbission and will create a wall of shame and religous bigotry on the Net. I am making notes about my talks with them and will document them on the Net shortly.

I will then tabulate the positive vs. negative results of my talks with the minsiters and write them all a letter and tell the to go online and read how these ministers treated me as a non believer - it will be hilarious!

I will also send this write up to every TV and radio station in town as well as a newspaper.

So far, the results are not enough but I am seeing the trend of religous bigotry displayed by ministers and pastors towards an atheist who proposes and "good will towards men" action and doesn't want to talk to them about their theology.

But some insist to find a fault with you which causes you to be "damaged goods" and because of that you are not in the flock and don't see the word of god. How ridiculosu is this - imagine these are the most trained "snake oil" salesmen who talk to their flock daily.

And yes, visiting "wrath of Hannibal Lector" on a brain of a person like you or that minister I spoke to yesterday is a must.

I think I will visit this minister shortly when their church has an orientation for the new flock :o)

I'll bring my video camera to recrod any pearls of wisdom.

I also wonder if you knowing that I am an atheist and seeing that I am hit by a car will not call 911 for help.

This is kind of the ultimate test of YOUR MORALITY.

One thing I know :o) I will call :o)

Hawk Eye

Yesterday I made 10 phone calls to churches, 3 were very negative, one minister said I'll go to hell, anotehr sercretary said their minister will NEVER call me back as she new it and the third one said she may call me back by end of January but MAY NOT EVEN CALL ME BACK. I told her I'll follow up on her in February to which she emphatically said "she'll call me back". So I confirmed that she'll call me back and she said "yes" ;O) with either positive or negative result.

So, we'll see :o) I've got another 90 churches to call. I am also teaming up with another person who'll be calling churches in KC area. We'll split the phone book - he'll start from the back and I am already in the beginning so we don't overlap.


You're welcome, Joe. Glad that you enjoyed it.


If you beat and shamed a minister into intellectual submission, then you should definitely name him so that he can again be beaten and shamed into intellectual submission on this blog.

It's impossible to do, because you ARE that minister(well, a wannabee, anyway) who is doing a sham of a job trying to make atheists and free thinkers look bad. Everyone here has your number, Hawk Eye.

Hawk Eye

Patricia, you sound kind of treatening :o) but hey, I know it hurts when people of your faith are actual bigots and clearly tell a person who is non-religious that they WILL NOT DO ANY GOOD DEEDS FOR A COMMUNITY WITH YOU BECAUE YOU ARE AN ATHEIST.

They invoke godly morals all the while I want to AVOID TALKING THEOLOGY but CONCENTRATE ON GOOD DEEDS WITH THEM - giving some hot soup to homeless in downtown KC or living under a bridge, gloves donation, blood drive, teaming up with them to go and clean streams and collect garbage along highways or city streets, blood drive.

What can be better than doing good for the community? If it takes SHAMING MINISTERS AND PASTORS INTO SUBMISSION TO ACTUALLY ACCEPT THAT ATHEISTS AND OTHER NON RELIGOUS PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE TOO :o) and that our morals and ethics are as good as theirs if not better (consider that only 0.2% of people in federal and state prisons are atheists :o) vs. about 10-20% who are non-religous in general population, also non-religous people have 7-10% lower divorce rate than religious people :o), so please, don't tell me that it is my problem that you as a religous person cannot see that doing joint good for the mankind is not worth putting all our theological differences aside.

I don't want to talk to religous peopel about their theology or my beliefs when we are doing common good.


This is where I draw the line and I WILL SHAME THEM INTO INTELLECUTAL SUBMISSION. I should have taped my talk to that minister, I was quoting from the Bible - all good things and hammering his brain and heart with.

I don't think you need to be religoius at all to have these "common sense" and "normal" moral and ethical values.

Whoever thinks that as an atheists I cannot have these values - are delusional :o) - I am proving it every day to you :o) through my words and through my deeds.

It is my pleasure to shame you religious Bible Thumpers of any faith into intelletual submission.

I hate to be always right when it comes to the fact that Christian animals just cannot have peace with the fact that other non-religous animals like atheists and other non religous people can have values that are not that far off.

They are just not THEIR VALUES :o) and this is what makes the worm never sleep.

Hawk Eye


* Be kind to strangers, widows, and fatherless children.
* Don't do what everyone else does, if what they do is wrong.
*Be kind to your enemies. Do good to those who hate you
*Treat the poor fairly
*Don't mistreat strangers
* Leave some grapes on the vine for travelers and the poor.
* Leave some grapes on the vine for travelers and the poor.
*Don't hate people
* Love thy neighbor as thyself
* Be kind to strangers.
* To help feed the poor and strangers, farmers should not harvest the corners of their fields.
* Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt
* Help the poor
* Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy
* Look out for your neighbor's animals and protect them from harm
* It shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow."
Be kind to widows, orphans, fatherless children and strangers. Share whatever you have with them.
* Take care of those who need help
* Blessed is he that considereth the poor
* Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked
* Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it.
* Help your neighbor, if you can
* Be kind to animals.
* A merry heart doeth good like a medicine
* He that hath a bountiful eye shall be blessed; for he giveth of his bread to the poor
* Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth
* Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work
* If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink
* The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it
* Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more


Is forcing someone to shut up the same as beating someone into intellectual submission?

Apparently this guy, whoever he is, thinks so.


Apparently the COR people and HH people think you are a nut too.
At least according to the guy I talked to at HH.

But carry on. Its intersting to see someone destroy their own positionn single handed.

Hawk Eye

Patricia, why would I want to be a minsiter of any kind? There are plenty of delusional people out there Chrisitans :o) who will willingly give their hard earned $$$ to support life styles of delusioanl minsiters and pastors to continue perpetrating their delusional views on them.

I think I'll pass. I just get intelelctual masochistic and animalistic pleasure of shaming religious people into submission and making them shut up and pray in their closet and in privacy of their delusion vomitting institutions as commanded to them by their imaginary space daddy Jesus Christ.

Hawk Eye

Keith :o)

Just to let you know :o) I have been offered a position of President of Heartland Humanists.

You think I am blowing smoke? :o) Talk to Jo Ann Mooney.

As for people at CoR thinking I am nuts :o) - hmmmmmmm, why don't you attend the last Sunday meeting in January. My snowed out talk a couple of weeks ago will be rescheuduled.

I am also going to call every single A-hole minister I spoke to and will have spoken to by end of January and invite them to come - I will be revealing the "religous" wall of shame with the names of the ministers and their specific comments then :o)

It will be fun.

The beaty of critical thinking is that I can care less what my fellow freethinkers think as long as they don't hurt me :o) or prevent me from excerncising my rights and I don't prevent them from doing the same.

The same is applied to delusioanl people like Christians.

Hawk Eye

"I want to penetrate your daughter... And your dog. Both anally. God rocks and Jesus is real."

Keith :o) - check this out below :o)

Yes, I would like to shut down every single loud babbling Bible Thumper who vomits absrudities, historical inaccurasies, scientific stupidities and perverted Biblican interpreations they use to justify their view point and sends me e-mails like this.

I don't have a problem with ANY "secular" or "closet" Christian who prays quietly in their closet or church, doesn't condemn myself or my wife to hell, lives otherwise normal secular life like "normal" people do and keep their faith as back up Plan B.

No problem with them. They can be as delusional as they want as long as it doesn't violate the laws of this country and I don't get e-mails like this.

"I want to penetrate your daughter... And your dog. Both anally. God rocks and Jesus is real."

A police report was filed on it in Overland Park and investigatition into it launched. The sender's IP address was located, the hosue of the person was identified within 10 homes on the street, the person was determined to be Christian.

He has confessed to sending it. The Overland Park police department investigation of the matter is concluded and appropriate actions are taken.

Other than that I don't have problems with delusaional Christians.

Hawk Eye

Activists in Vermont town want Bush, Cheney subject to arrest

MONTPELIER, Vermont (AP) -- President Bush may soon have a new reason to avoid left-leaning Vermont: In one town, activists want him subject to arrest for war crimes.

2007 stem cell breakthrough is like turning lead into gold
December 27, 2007 - 8:44AM

It was the kind of breakthrough scientists had dreamed of for decades and its promise to help cure disease appears to be fast on the way to being realized.

Researchers in November announced they were able to turn the clock back on skin cells and transform them into stem cells, the mutable building blocks of organs and tissues.

Then just earlier this month a different team announced it had cured sickle cell anemia in mice using stem cells derived from adult mouse skin.

Hawk Eye

December 2, 2007

Robo Love


A few months ago I wrote a magazine article about scientists who are building robots capable of a rudimentary form of sociability. As part of my research, I spent a few days at the humanoid robotics laboratory at M.I.T. And I admit: I developed a little crush on one of the robots.

The object of my affection was Domo, a man-size machine with a buff torso and big blue eyes, a cross between He-Man and the Chrysler Building; when it gripped my hand in its strong rubbery pincers I felt a kind of thrill. So I was primed for the basic premise of David Levy’s provocative new book, “Love and Sex With Robots”: that there will soon come a day when people fall in love with robots and want them for companions, friends, love objects and possibly even partners for sex and marriage.

Basement Student Activist.

Iggy, my prayer is that you DO get the position of president of HH. LOLOLOLOL!!!

That said, if you really want to talk to a minister, call First United Methodist Church of the Resurrection. Jeremy Mohn, an evening worship leader, is also a science teacher and posts at Kansas Citizens for Science.

He not only help you, but he can meet ANY intellectual chanllenge that you have thrown up.

Now I know you earlier made thye EXCUSE that you couldn't call him because you didn't know him, but apparently you have no problem calling ministers all over time.

In my personal opinion only, considering that you wouldn't even call Jeremy Mohn, I think you are lying about calling those ministers.

Hawk Eye

Goldstein, I am sorry buddy, I don't need to call him - it was your turn to make arrangments for the debate which you weasled out from :o)

I am not in a debate with him as I have never come across him. If he is ready to engage and wants it, great, bring it on.

I don't engage people I don't come across on my own accord. You are a prime example - weasel :o)

I have it all lined up - HH or CoR or anywhere else for a debate.

By the way, my offer of the cake is still open. There is mroe than half of it left. You also weasled out of that one :o)

How Goldsteinian!

Hawk Eye

Goldstein, why don't you have this guy call me :o)

And if you'd like to know who'll be on the religous wall of shame, check out http://www.KCFreeThought.org for the date of my talk end of January.

So far, I have 2 ministers (not including the one that I shamed into intellectual submission and hammered his delusaional brains with facts from his Bible) and one secretary of the chruch who said the minsters WILL NEVER CALL ME.

By end of January I estimate I'll have the list to at least 15-20.

Plus another guy is going to be calling other minsiters in the area. So I think between two of us there will be 30-40 ministers/pastors who are complete idiots and who need to have their values reevaluated in light of their "righteous" religous Chrisitan beliefs.

Please, come to my talk :o) - I am sure you'll like it :o) You can have your cake and eat it too :o)

Hawk Eye


YOu maybe intrested in our Science Book Club that will meet tomorrow Sunday at 11 a.m. at Westport Cofee House. We are reading "Death by Black Hole" a fascinating Bible Crushing book by Neil Tyson.

Any "open minded" Bible Thumpers and Christains are invited. I am prepared to slap some of your facial cheeks only :o) - and you'd better turn them as your imaginary space daddy Jesus commanded you to.

Also, CoR will have an interesting program "I am gay" at 1 p.m. and also a special at 11 a.m. with the vidoe of Richard Dawkins at the Atheist Alliance INternational. I've seen it at http://www.RichardDawkins.net when they posted it initially and have a conflict with the Science Book Club, but if some "open minded" Christains would like to see why they are delusional, please, make arrangments to see that special at 11.

I'll show up at about 12:30 to slap you around at CoR if you chose to stay and woudl like to engage in a debate, Goldstein :o)

But knowing you, you'll weasel out. I'll probably will catch you one day at the All Souls Unitarian Chruch where yous howed up a couple of timss.

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